Halloween 2025 Special - Sleepy Hollow (1999) With Guest Eloy Martinez!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're just in time to have your head cut off. The Horseman comes and tonight he comes for you. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Good evening and welcome to the Hollow. This is regarding Spawn, the world's spawniest and best spawn podcast. But this week. Well, I don't want to go right into it, David, but if you click on the episode title, you already know it's a surprise episode this week. And I'm your co host, John Fisher. [00:00:59] Speaker A: I'm your co host, David Williams. [00:01:01] Speaker B: I forgot I got all off my groove because I didn't do the. Oh, we used Miranda Richardson's fantastic performance. [00:01:07] Speaker A: You were a little. You were a little sleepy, you say? [00:01:11] Speaker B: I felt my rendition of it rang a little hollow. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Well, I mean, you can't. You can't do it as well as the bros. Johnny. That's what. That's what she gets paid for. And well, Johnny, Johnny, we're. As you mentioned, we're talking. We're talking a movie about a lot of heads today. [00:01:29] Speaker B: But it does relate to Spawn. [00:01:31] Speaker A: Yeah. In some way because it. [00:01:33] Speaker B: There's a lot of hell in it. Hellfire, cauterized wounds and shit. And this week. Yeah, two days from our record two days ago, from when you're listening to this. If you're listening to this on the day it came out, there's a new comic release by IDW Dark called Return to Sleepy Hollow. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. [00:01:53] Speaker B: The sequel has. Is about to come out and drop in the comic book form. Yeah, so we are. We totally planned it that way. We didn't just randomly pick that movie. And then I found out that like third hour ago, totally planned it. I thought we knew the sequel was coming. [00:02:08] Speaker A: I thought your. Your reasoning behind it being a spawny movie was because Johnny likes it. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that too. [00:02:16] Speaker A: Yeah, but. But yeah. So Sleepy Hollow, lots of heads. Johnny, there's an extra head. Oh my God, there's an extra. [00:02:24] Speaker B: Right? There's extra head in this zoom. That is because we have. Because, you know, the entry point to a movie is a lot easier than. Hey, can you read 300 issues of Spawn real quick and then talk about one of them? Because that's the easier entry point to a podcast. We decided to invite on a guest. And that's what Sleepy Hollow is about. There's a big party with guests. Yeah, they're getting. Halloween time. It's spooky season. [00:02:48] Speaker A: Getting kissed by blindfolded women. [00:02:51] Speaker B: Oh, well, maybe the night is young. But no, we have a guest that is my dear friend, Eloy Martinez. Welcome, Eloy. [00:03:01] Speaker C: Hi. Do not hurt yourself stretching to introduce me into this podcast. [00:03:08] Speaker B: We're stretching. [00:03:09] Speaker C: You're stretching in every which way. [00:03:12] Speaker B: That's what David does. [00:03:13] Speaker A: I'm gonna hurt myself. The entire conceit is switched. Sweaty. I'm a very sweaty individual in both physically and temperament. [00:03:24] Speaker C: I thought maybe you picked this just because you wanted to talk about the McFarland toy line that came out. [00:03:30] Speaker B: I mean, that too. We're doing it right now. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Definitely. [00:03:34] Speaker B: I had all four figures. [00:03:36] Speaker C: The worst figure when I was in. In toy history. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Oh, the Crone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing that's so funny about it. That thing was like. There were like 20 crones on the shelf at Toys R Us. No Ichabods. No Horsemen. [00:03:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Nobody wanted the Crone. [00:03:52] Speaker B: No one wanted the Crone. I mean, it was just like this big hunk of plastic. And like her. She had a piece of hair that you pushed in the back of her head and her eyeballs and her tongue popped out. [00:04:01] Speaker A: Oh, geez. [00:04:02] Speaker B: Like in the movie. [00:04:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:03] Speaker A: Oh, geez. Like when she's possessed. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah, like when she's possessed. [00:04:06] Speaker C: But yeah, she littered that instead of a Horseman. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Or Ichabod Crane. Boring. [00:04:13] Speaker A: No, Katrina Van Tassel. They went for the Crone instead of Katrina Van Tassel. [00:04:18] Speaker B: It was a different time, David. [00:04:19] Speaker A: I mean, I guess she was also just turned 18. So maybe didn't have the ability to sign off on likenesses at the time. They had to make the toys. [00:04:29] Speaker B: They were detailed. They were. They were. I remember they like, touted some new laser technology on the packaging and on, like the instructions they used to make the likenesses for the Sleepy Hollow toys. [00:04:40] Speaker A: How they carved the little bag with all the stuff in it for Ichabod. Yes. [00:04:44] Speaker B: I think it was awesome. I. I still have my Ichabod, but it's just not. I'm in transit right now, so it's in storage. My life is in transit at the moment, man. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Just like that headless horseman transiting between the realms. [00:04:58] Speaker B: Oh, my God. You're doing everything. You're getting real sweaty. Did we even say what we're doing yet? Do we even say it? [00:05:05] Speaker C: No. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Kind of. No, not really. Please spell it out for us, John. [00:05:08] Speaker B: We are doing is a special Halloween episode us regarding Spawn are covering our first movie. That's not a Star wars movie or. [00:05:17] Speaker C: A Star wars movie, though it is. [00:05:20] Speaker B: Kind of a Star wars movie. You're right. They filmed that is all to say. Let me just get it out. We were talking about Tim Burton's 1999 classic at this point. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Sleepy Hollow Instant Classic. I would call it. [00:05:32] Speaker C: And they did film in the same studio right after episode one finished filming. [00:05:38] Speaker A: Nice. [00:05:39] Speaker C: And that's. [00:05:39] Speaker B: And we have all around Good Guy. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Ray park as the Horseman and Papa Palpatine is the. [00:05:46] Speaker C: The Ding Dang Doctor and Count Dooku. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:50] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Is this a Star wars movie? [00:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:54] Speaker B: Play the Star wars theme. No, not that one. The other one. [00:06:00] Speaker A: That's the other one worth listening to. Yeah. Get that Jizz, Johnny. That jizz. [00:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah, we love jizz since. [00:06:05] Speaker A: Since renamed. [00:06:08] Speaker B: They did rename it. [00:06:09] Speaker A: He's redacted Jizz Johnny. He probably listens to a podcast and was like, oh, boy. [00:06:17] Speaker B: No, that's why they. That's completely why they rebooted the universe with Disney. They're like, well, they called jazz jizz in the old eu, so we got to get rid of this. [00:06:24] Speaker C: Now it's just called Zman. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. What's the difference? Yeah, it is. It is a very Star Warsy cast and pottery. Cast and pottery. A lot of potters, a lot of just. And then a lot of. A lot of. Almost kind of canceled people. A lot of. [00:06:44] Speaker A: A lot of nasty. [00:06:45] Speaker C: A lot of people that we cannot go into depth about. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Isn't this. Isn't this actually the film that Jeffrey Jones got caught during or like, right after filming? [00:06:57] Speaker B: I don't think so. That was way later. [00:06:59] Speaker C: Yeah, that was later, because he was. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Still in Deadwood and, like, a whole bunch of stuff in the early 2000s. [00:07:04] Speaker C: He was even in the Deadwood movie after everything came out. [00:07:08] Speaker B: Also, he kind of told on himself and Ferris Bueller. He's chasing that kid around. [00:07:12] Speaker C: Come on. He's also kind of in Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. [00:07:15] Speaker B: He is. It's weird that he didn't just, like, kill him off and say he was dead. [00:07:19] Speaker C: Yeah, he's running around. [00:07:21] Speaker B: The fact that they showed his claymation face was strange. And then the. The half of his body, like, we know that's him. [00:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I guess they technically did kill him off, but that's a. That's a hard universe to kill somebody off in, to have them be gone. Right. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Because it's kind of just been like. [00:07:36] Speaker A: He went to hell, as the musical says. It's a show about death that's coming. [00:07:40] Speaker B: Back to Broadway, I heard. [00:07:41] Speaker A: Oh, nice. I know. [00:07:43] Speaker B: It's very popular. I found the man on the soundtrack to be grading, so I didn't finish it. [00:07:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he. He is a little. [00:07:53] Speaker B: I'm sure it works in a show. [00:07:54] Speaker C: But does every big musical nowadays. [00:07:58] Speaker A: Alex, what's this. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Oh, maybe he's like. Has a voice like, hey, how's it going? [00:08:02] Speaker C: Yeah, that's him. It's. He was in School of Rock and. Yeah, every big thing. [00:08:09] Speaker B: Probably Shrek. [00:08:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Alex Brightman maybe or something like that. [00:08:14] Speaker A: I think. I think that's. I think that. That sounds right. [00:08:17] Speaker B: Well, anyway, he's like, hey, Lydia. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Whoa. [00:08:20] Speaker B: And I was like, no, thank you. [00:08:22] Speaker A: That was spot on. Actually felt like I was transported. [00:08:26] Speaker B: I might be getting. I probably get the part offered to me because. Yeah, exactly. I know. It was. It was really popular in Chicago when it came. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I mean, like, it like they extended their lease at their first theater in New York like four times before they were finally kicked out. [00:08:46] Speaker B: So that's good for them. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Good for them. [00:08:50] Speaker B: They should make Sleepy Hollow new musical. Johnny and I. I tried. [00:08:56] Speaker C: Well, in preparation for this, I did not rewatch Sleepy Hollow. [00:09:00] Speaker A: Okay. [00:09:01] Speaker B: Really? [00:09:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I think I saw it in theaters when it came out and I've seen it a couple times. I did watch a couple YouTube reactions of the movie. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:10] Speaker C: But what I. [00:09:10] Speaker B: That's good. [00:09:11] Speaker C: What I did go back and do was watch the 1949 Adventures of Mr. Toad and Ichabod. [00:09:19] Speaker A: I was literally making that joke earlier and I was like, I'm excited. We watched this 30 minute long Disney movie. [00:09:25] Speaker C: I watched it. It had the Ichabod part, has no dialogue. [00:09:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:31] Speaker C: It's all like, yo. [00:09:33] Speaker A: I like how he. I like how when he sings his Adam's apple, it's like. And he just. He like houses those whole pies. Christmas. [00:09:41] Speaker C: Very, very. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Did you do it as a diss? Did you use the diss of the movie because you hate it? [00:09:46] Speaker C: No, I don't. [00:09:48] Speaker B: Well, I can't remember if you're a Burton guy or not. I can't remember what you think about Tim Burton. [00:09:51] Speaker C: Let's get into the movie. I want to kick it off with one question. [00:09:55] Speaker A: Okay. [00:09:55] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:56] Speaker C: Is this a horror movie? [00:09:58] Speaker B: Kind of. I'm waving my hand like this. I'm doing six, six, seven. [00:10:03] Speaker A: It's more of a. It's more of a love story than a horror movie. [00:10:06] Speaker B: I consider it like a spooky movie and it's like a Scooby Doo mystery movie. [00:10:10] Speaker C: Yeah, but it really isn't. Cuz you expect it to be. You expect it to be a person. [00:10:18] Speaker B: Well, spoiler to it is a person behind the person. [00:10:21] Speaker C: Christopher Walken you expect it to be not supernatural. That's the whole conceit of the first. [00:10:30] Speaker B: Like 30 minutes of the movie. [00:10:31] Speaker C: Well, of even the beginning of the like, okay, so it starts off and he's a investigator detective in New York who wants to use science to cut him up. [00:10:44] Speaker A: What are we, heathens? [00:10:45] Speaker C: Yeah. And then Christopher Lee says, okay, since you want to use science, I will send you to Sleepy Hollow and figure out scientifically how these murders are being done. Yeah. And then it's just supernatural. [00:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah. He's wrong. He's totally wrong. [00:11:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:07] Speaker C: I don't know what he tells his boss when he gets back. Yeah. [00:11:10] Speaker B: He's like, you were right, dude. It was a ghost. [00:11:14] Speaker C: We keep torturing people. I guess. Like, no science here. [00:11:18] Speaker A: I gotta say, when I watch the System, when I watched this the first time, I was like, ichabod's a cool guy. And I thought he was a really cool guy. And I didn't realize until this time watching it that he's just a wiener. Holy. [00:11:32] Speaker B: Yeah, he's a wiener. [00:11:33] Speaker A: I didn't. I didn't realize how much of a wiener he was until this time. [00:11:36] Speaker B: And it's like, oh, I think he's cool. But I realize now, like, when you're in eighth grade, like, I saw this in theaters in eighth grade. Yeah. When it came out, it was rated R. I remember I had to, like, do a PowerPoint presentation, basically, to my dad to be like, I'm gonna die if I don't see this movie on opening day. I don't want you to come with me because you're not gonna like it. It's gory. And I don't want you to, like, not like it. So you have to. I, like, was like, so please just. Will you buy me a ticket? Let me go see it. And he did, which was really nice. [00:12:04] Speaker A: Nice. [00:12:04] Speaker B: And they went and saw the World Is Not Enough Nice. Because they came out on the same weekend. [00:12:11] Speaker C: I think I saw that. And then. Well, I was a freshman in college, and we didn't have a lot of money. I was in Chicago. My family is back home in Texas. So I couldn't, like, justify going home for Thanksgiving and then going home for Christmas break. So I had to stay over Thanksgiving, so there was nothing, like, for me to do. So I would go to the movies and the good movie theater downtown Chicago, the good Old River East. I used to stay there all day and just jump between theaters. [00:12:48] Speaker A: Nice. [00:12:49] Speaker C: So I'm pretty sure I did that with the World Is Not Enough and Sleepy Hollow. Nice Winter, both in a day. [00:12:57] Speaker B: Did you keep up that tradition? [00:12:59] Speaker C: Oh, I did that until I thought you did. Yeah. Until the AMC stopped putting the name of the movie outside the Theater. [00:13:10] Speaker A: You're the one that did it. [00:13:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. [00:13:13] Speaker B: They stopped doing that. [00:13:14] Speaker C: They stopped doing that during MoviePass. [00:13:16] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:13:17] Speaker C: In the Movie Pass days. [00:13:18] Speaker B: Okay. This damn movie past days. What a wild ride that was. [00:13:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:22] Speaker B: Remember, we were just using it. It was just like. [00:13:24] Speaker C: I used. [00:13:25] Speaker B: Like. This is crazy. [00:13:26] Speaker C: I used it every day. Going home. I watched. Would stop by and watch 30 minutes of Infinity War or. [00:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:13:34] Speaker C: 45 minutes of Deadpool 2. Just going to whatever was showing on the way home. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Ridiculous. [00:13:41] Speaker C: 30, 40 minutes. And then leave. [00:13:43] Speaker B: The thing that was funny is they started, like, restricting your movies, but then you just pick that movie they let you see and go see the other movie. [00:13:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:49] Speaker C: About to take it to book club. About a ticket to Gotti. I'm about to take it to the Superfly remake. [00:13:58] Speaker A: That's wild times. [00:14:00] Speaker B: I mean, that was the wild. That was the Wild West. Yeah. No, I. I didn't. I don't think I saw the World is Not Enough in theaters. Actually, I missed it. I was a big salt on vhs. [00:14:09] Speaker C: I was a big Bond person. [00:14:11] Speaker B: I was, like, pretty into Bond. I didn't really get into Bond until a few years later. [00:14:14] Speaker A: That was. That was the Denise Richards one, right? [00:14:17] Speaker C: Yes. [00:14:17] Speaker A: Oh, man. I liked that one a lot. [00:14:20] Speaker B: That was good. It's got a good song, too. Garbage. Good song. But I was obsessed with Tim Burton and Sleepy Hollow. [00:14:29] Speaker A: Yep. [00:14:30] Speaker B: In eighth grade, I had the art book. I had all the action figures. I had the soundtrack. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Nice. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Sleepy Hollow was the first DVD I ever got. [00:14:41] Speaker A: Oh, hell, yeah. [00:14:42] Speaker B: When I got it, my DVD player. [00:14:43] Speaker C: Wow. [00:14:45] Speaker B: Because. Interesting, fun trivia it was. [00:14:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:14:47] Speaker B: That weird cusp. They only released it for sale on dvd. They were created rental copies for Blockbuster, but it was originally not released on vhs. It was one of the first movies where they just made rental copies. So, like, there was no VHS copy of it when it came out. So I was like, I have to get a DVD player. I have to own this movie. [00:15:05] Speaker A: Nice. [00:15:05] Speaker B: And so, like, it would have been the year after, like, the next Christmas, because I'd rented it, like, three times, and I got a DVD player for Christmas, and I got Sleepy Hollow. [00:15:14] Speaker A: Hell, yeah. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Actually, I bought Sleepy Hollow before I even had my DVD player. I bought it because my brother got a PS2. And I was like, when he's gone, I can watch it on his PS2. I did that for a while. [00:15:26] Speaker A: Excellent. And my. My parents went to go see it on a date night, and they're like, wait till it comes out on video. It's gonna Scare you. So I remember them letting. I was in sixth grade when it came out, so yeah, that was prime me being scared of everything. [00:15:43] Speaker B: Did they rent it for you eventually? [00:15:45] Speaker A: Oh, they, they bought it. My dad had a bad habit of never walking out of Walmart without a movie. [00:15:51] Speaker B: That would have been a blockbuster, David. Because what did I just tell you? Or did they have a DVD player? [00:15:56] Speaker A: They had a DVD player. [00:15:57] Speaker B: Oh, okay. There you go. So you had on dvd. My dad did that too. It was great. Like back in the day when, like there wasn't just a million movies on streaming and my dad would have like all these $5 movies. I'd be like, what the hell is this? Yeah, some Michael Keaton movie I'd never heard of. [00:16:11] Speaker A: So that's how my sister and I found a copy of Copper Mountain, Jim Carrey's first film. I think we've talked about that before, actually. [00:16:19] Speaker B: I think you mentioned. I don't remember. [00:16:21] Speaker A: It was like a promotional video made for Copper Mountain, the resort. So half of the film is literally just footage from a party that they threw. And it's like 56 minutes long. [00:16:34] Speaker B: I remember in the $5 bin, Adam Sandler's first movie, going overboard. It was always in the $5 bin. It's like him, like holding his head, screaming, he's got a inner tube around him. It's something about a cruise. But it came out before, like Billy Madison and Happy Gilmore. [00:16:52] Speaker A: Yeah, before the Sandler. [00:16:54] Speaker B: Before the cannon started. [00:16:55] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I used to swim through those bargain bins at Walmart when I would go home. [00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah. I, I realized the Best Buy doesn't even sell them anymore. So I went to Best Buy to. [00:17:04] Speaker C: Get a. Oh yeah. It's been a couple years. [00:17:07] Speaker B: I didn't know I hadn't been. [00:17:09] Speaker C: The last thing I bought from Best Buy is when they were trying to get rid of all their physical media. I have the three steelbook 4Ks of the original Star wars trilogy. [00:17:23] Speaker A: Nice. [00:17:23] Speaker C: And I still have them shrink wrapped. [00:17:26] Speaker B: Hell yeah. [00:17:27] Speaker C: But yeah, when they announced they were like going out of like selling physical media. I saw this Sleepy Hollow Steel book and I have it didn't pull the trigger on buying it. And I do regret it because, I mean, it is a good. The. That first 15 years of 14, 15 years of Tim Burton is like. They're all bangers. They're all great movies. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Yeah. They folk go, I even love, I love Mars Attacks. [00:18:02] Speaker A: What do you mean you even love Mars Attacks? [00:18:04] Speaker B: People on that. [00:18:05] Speaker C: That's the one. I don't. [00:18:06] Speaker A: Those people suck. [00:18:07] Speaker C: Oh, eloy. [00:18:08] Speaker B: That was 97. That was his miss. Well, this was his return to form. [00:18:12] Speaker A: This was. This was wonderful. May the scorch be with you. Goodbye. [00:18:16] Speaker B: Oh, I think it's done. He loves Mars Attacks, that guy. [00:18:20] Speaker A: Love Mars Attacks. Although I must, I will say Mars Attacks is the movie that made me understand what anxiety was. And I'll probably never. [00:18:29] Speaker B: Why is that? [00:18:30] Speaker A: Because I was anxious the entire time and he also. I was like, what is this feeling that I'm. I'm feeling while I'm watching this movie? [00:18:36] Speaker C: You love Mars Attacks because you saw it when you were 12. [00:18:43] Speaker A: I wasn't even 12. [00:18:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I would have seen it the. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Year it came out, so I would have been nine. [00:18:47] Speaker C: Yeah. So Mars Attacks the cows on fire. [00:18:52] Speaker A: Oh, beautiful. [00:18:53] Speaker C: I saw Mars attacks as a 30 something year old and was like, yeah, no, this is dumb. [00:19:00] Speaker A: They come in. [00:19:03] Speaker C: But you tied like peewee. I loved. [00:19:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:07] Speaker C: Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, the two Batmans. Ed Wood. Like Ed Wood. [00:19:14] Speaker A: Ed was very good. [00:19:15] Speaker C: He's knocking it out of the park. And then I think, aside from Sweeney Todd, like, this is his last good movie. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Big Fish is good. [00:19:25] Speaker A: I like Big Fish. I never saw Big Eyes. [00:19:28] Speaker C: Big Fish is good. Big guys. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Big Eyes is forgettable. Yeah, forgettable at best. [00:19:35] Speaker C: It makes you want to forget it when you watch. [00:19:37] Speaker A: I like the course. I like the Corpse Bride. I know, I know a lot of people don't like Corpse Bride. [00:19:42] Speaker C: That's not Tim Burton though. [00:19:43] Speaker B: No, he got a director's credit on that somehow. That little weasel on that one. [00:19:46] Speaker A: He did. [00:19:47] Speaker C: I thought he was only a producer. Did he. Was it a co directing credit? [00:19:51] Speaker B: Yeah, he got like a weasel. [00:19:52] Speaker C: Yeah, it's the same thing like that. And you know, Nightmare. [00:19:57] Speaker B: It's like a Wes Anderson directed Fantastic Mr. Fox, where he was just on a monitor being like, yeah, do that. And these people were like dying trying to make these foxes work. [00:20:05] Speaker C: Well, he. I give more credit to him because have you ever seen. He had all those actors act out that entire movie, like just in a field, and then took it to animators. [00:20:19] Speaker B: I heard it was really difficult though, because of the fur and like they couldn't express to him how difficult it was. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Speaking of fields, our movie starts in a field. [00:20:28] Speaker B: Does it? [00:20:29] Speaker A: It does, it does. At first it starts on a document being signed and sealed and then we're riding through what is very obviously a cornfield on a soundstage. [00:20:42] Speaker B: I love the soundstage quality of this movie. It's really cool. They really lean into it and it's just Everything's a soundstage except for, like, the wide shots of the town. [00:20:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it's got the spooky. The spooky. Jack Skellington, Pumpkin Head, Pumpkin King, Scarecrow. Yes, And a double beheading. Yes. [00:21:02] Speaker B: It was very important. The plot. This is where we see the Vanguert. The Widow Winship. Yeah, the Widow Winship get married. And then there's the last will and testament. It leaves everything to her, but it was witnessed by the servant Masmith, Jonathan Nesmith. [00:21:18] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's Martin Landau, one of Burton's guys again. [00:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:23] Speaker B: Yep. [00:21:24] Speaker C: Coming back. [00:21:25] Speaker A: This is a real murderer's row of distinguished old men. Distinguished old white men, at least, as. [00:21:30] Speaker B: I've always said, a man of flesh and blood. None other than Baltus Van Tassel. I watch this movie a lot. [00:21:36] Speaker A: Couldn't tell. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Couldn't tell. [00:21:38] Speaker A: Couldn't tell, Couldn't tell. [00:21:39] Speaker B: I would, like, fall asleep to it because it was, like, the only DVD I owned for, like, a couple months. So I would just, like, pop it in. [00:21:45] Speaker A: And then after that, we cut to. We meet Inspector Ichabod Crane fishing a dead man out of the river. Johnny in New York. [00:21:55] Speaker B: We find him in the river. Cause of death is drowning. [00:21:58] Speaker C: Okay, you might know this, John, since you know this movie back. Who is that guy with the eyebrows? [00:22:05] Speaker B: I don't know, but yeah, I know who you're talking about. He's in a bunch of so many movies. [00:22:09] Speaker A: Looking at. Okay, well, I. I took the. The liberty of opening both the wikipedia and the IMDb so that way we got this ready to go. But I forgot that IMDb fucking changed how it does all its so. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Oh, they did? [00:22:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:26] Speaker C: Yeah, it's annoying now. [00:22:28] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very annoying. Alan Armstrong Allen spelled a L, U. [00:22:33] Speaker B: N. What else has he been in? [00:22:35] Speaker A: Well, now I gotta click on that. [00:22:37] Speaker C: Go away from the. Yeah, click on that. [00:22:39] Speaker B: You go back, open a separate pet tab. [00:22:41] Speaker C: Come on. [00:22:41] Speaker B: You got two monitors there. I know you do. [00:22:43] Speaker A: I got. I got four windows open on this one monitor, Johnny, so that way I can have you and Eli Eloy's face all nice and beautiful. He is in Jesus Christ. I'm gonna have to. He's in. [00:22:57] Speaker B: He's in Jesus Christ Superstar. [00:22:59] Speaker A: He's in everything all the time. [00:23:01] Speaker C: I know. He's got, like, probably 1200 credits. Like, I've seen him in everything. I just don't. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Give me some highlights. Give me, like, a couple I'd recognize. [00:23:09] Speaker A: Downton Abbey, Penny Dreadful. Okay, he's an Eragon. That dragon movie. He's an Oliver Twist from 2005. He's in Van. Van Helsing with a huge Ackman. [00:23:22] Speaker B: Wow. Van Helsing. Wow. [00:23:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:24] Speaker B: I feel like that was greenlit because Sleepy Hollow is a success. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Maybe he's in the Mummy Returns. [00:23:31] Speaker C: Wow. Okay. Yeah. What's his 90s? I remember him. Big in the 90s. [00:23:36] Speaker A: Okay, so Underworld, he was in the Saint, he was in Tales from the Crypt. Television show. Our Friends in the North. Sorry about last night. The Haunting of Helen Walker. Braveheart. He was Braveheart. He was in a MacGyver movie. He was in Black Beauty. You could say there's a black beauty in this. That horse that the Horseman rides. Beautiful horse. [00:24:03] Speaker B: Daredevil is the horse's name, by the way. [00:24:05] Speaker A: Patriot Games. He was in Married With Children. [00:24:07] Speaker B: Oh, boy. [00:24:08] Speaker A: He was in the Widowmaker. [00:24:12] Speaker C: Can I say he was in a lot of things? [00:24:13] Speaker B: No, just he's got those memorable eyebrows. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Yeah, he sure does. Yeah. [00:24:18] Speaker B: He's. Ichabod brings in this corpse, and there's a big, bloated dead man in the river. What river would that be? What are the rivers in New York? [00:24:27] Speaker C: The Hudson. [00:24:28] Speaker B: The Hudson, yeah. All right. [00:24:29] Speaker A: Okay. I was about to say it's either the Hudson or the East. [00:24:33] Speaker B: It's the Hudson, baby. Hudson Valley. And he takes them back to the jail, which is a, like, MC Escher painting of jail cells. There's like, one on the floor, there's. [00:24:46] Speaker C: One on the wall. [00:24:47] Speaker B: There's like, one up above. It's just, like, so ridiculous. I love how just left of reality. A lot of this movie is. Yeah, it's fun. [00:24:56] Speaker A: And they bring in the, you know, Ichabods, like, wanting to examine his body to see if he did drown. And he says, cut him up. Are we heathens? And they drag that one dude in and they're like, what's wrong with him? Nothing. Resisted arrest. [00:25:12] Speaker C: It's nice to know cops have never changed since. [00:25:15] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly the same in. Same as 1799 or 1799. [00:25:20] Speaker C: Arrested for burglary and he's just beat. [00:25:22] Speaker A: To all hell, they just, like. They open the top of a cell and just throw him in head first. [00:25:27] Speaker C: Throw him in a pit. [00:25:28] Speaker A: I also like. I also like how in this. In the courtroom scene where Count Dooku is up there, you know, Dookuing around, they've just got this dude and, like, a half iron maiden just, like, strapped there. Yeah. [00:25:45] Speaker C: He's waiting for them to put the other half in. Yeah, like, we've already. [00:25:50] Speaker B: You guys want to know what that is? Because it's a deleted scene. It's in the script. [00:25:55] Speaker A: What is it? [00:25:56] Speaker B: So Ichabod walks in and he picks it. He's like, I'm a man of science, blah, blah, blah. And he's like arguing with that guy who's the other lawyer about something. And so Ichabod. It's a contraption that they use or that he invented. Push the guy into it and it like. It's an auto confessor that makes him sign a confession with his hand. He's like. That's why he says based on confessions worth no more than this one. When he's sitting there in the. That's what he's talking about. Because he like, makes the other lawyer confess to the crime he committed and said like, that's how good their evidence is. It's kind of a stupid scene. I understand why they cut it. So it's an auto confessor machine, but yeah, it looks like an Iron Maiden. [00:26:36] Speaker A: Nice. I do like. I do like how there's a lot of centering people in the middle of things for this. And the first wicket of that is Christopher Lee centered between the wings of the eagle. [00:26:49] Speaker B: I know he looks. He's got his Dracula, his bat wings going. And he does his. He does his big point with that long finger. [00:26:57] Speaker A: And then we get the. The first of many shots of this one little cardinal. [00:27:01] Speaker B: I love the line. Clean as dandelion heads, apparently. [00:27:06] Speaker C: I do love him. Casting Christopher Lee in this was supposed to be like, here's Christopher Lee. Let's honor him for all his work. He's on his way out. Like, this is. [00:27:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:16] Speaker C: Be his last film. And then he acted for another 30 years. Then he. Yeah, he has this huge revival the very next year. [00:27:24] Speaker A: This was also before he did his. His. His music career. [00:27:29] Speaker C: Yeah. The heavy metal album. [00:27:31] Speaker A: His. His concept album about Charlemagne. Who he's a descendant of. [00:27:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Well, Burns always said this was like his homage to Hammer horror. And, you know, just. Have you ever watched any Hammer Horror? [00:27:46] Speaker C: They're pretty boring. [00:27:47] Speaker A: I have not. No. [00:27:48] Speaker C: Yeah. I've seen one or two out of. You know, I want to see what Peter Cushing looked like in 1965. [00:27:57] Speaker A: That's right. [00:27:58] Speaker C: And it's. Yeah. It is just. They are very slow and very slow. [00:28:04] Speaker B: You can tell they have, like, no budget. It's just like. Yeah. [00:28:07] Speaker A: I gotta say, Ichabod doesn't take very good notes in his little notebook. [00:28:12] Speaker B: It pisses very artistic notes. [00:28:14] Speaker A: It pisses me off a lot. Like when he's. When he's deducing in the room later and he's Just, like, randomly writing and it's like, what the fuck are you doing? You don't start in the middle of the page. [00:28:25] Speaker C: Well, he's also not a good detective. [00:28:27] Speaker A: No, he's not. [00:28:28] Speaker C: Like, when somebody gets beheaded, he's like, this person has been beheaded. And they're all like, duh, we brought you here because these people have been beheaded. [00:28:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:40] Speaker C: And, yeah, anytime he tries to do an experiment, it just gets everything all bloody and goes wrong. And. Yeah, he's not a good police officer. [00:28:50] Speaker A: No, he is not. [00:28:51] Speaker C: Which is what he's supposed to be. [00:28:53] Speaker A: But, yeah, so. So he's sent on a task to investigate these beheadings in Sleepy Hollow. [00:29:01] Speaker B: And we get the great opening titles with a Danny Elfman score. [00:29:04] Speaker A: My dad was always very impressed that they had the reflection of the words on the. On the river. [00:29:10] Speaker B: Yes, it's pretty cool. And it's funny because whenever Danny Elfman's name come up, it's like the biggest. Oh, well, it's this giant, like, c. It's great. [00:29:21] Speaker A: I mean, wouldn't you do that if you were Danny Elfman? [00:29:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that's not what this music sounds like. [00:29:28] Speaker C: It kind of. [00:29:29] Speaker B: Are you seeing. Are you seeing an Oro. Are you seeing an Oro Boingo over there? [00:29:32] Speaker C: Every Danny Elfman score that's ever been. Thanks, Danny Elfman. We'll cut you a check for your rapid strings and your. [00:29:46] Speaker B: He loves it. [00:29:46] Speaker A: He does. He does kidnap Mr. Sandy Claus. So Ichabod gets dropped off and he walks through the town, and the town is just, like, dead. And everybody's closing the windows on him and they're like, oh, we don't like this outsider guy. And he walks up to the only sign of life in the village, and it is the party going on at the Van Tassel house. [00:30:08] Speaker B: He's about to go in, he sees someone making out. [00:30:12] Speaker A: There's some snogging going on. [00:30:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it looks like a Mr. Sheaves over there. I think we don't know who it is at this point, though. But he looks. His silhouette looks familiar. Especially his bottom chin. [00:30:24] Speaker A: Especially. Especially when he brings the lady close to him and he says, do it. [00:30:28] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:30:30] Speaker A: That's a dead giveaway. And then, speaking of smooching, Ichabod gets smooched by Katrina. Katrina Van Tassel. Right in front of her brave man. [00:30:41] Speaker B: Brahm, who she's playing pickety witch baby. [00:30:44] Speaker C: Johnny Rico was pissed. [00:30:47] Speaker B: Yeah, Johnny Rico was fit. [00:30:48] Speaker C: But I do love this transition. I love going from that dark, dead town where there's nothing and he opens the doors and it's the most vibrant. [00:30:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:59] Speaker C: Like kind of party scene there is. [00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah, like. Yeah, it's great. It feels so warm. It's like what a great fall party. [00:31:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And just like the detail and like the bookcases and the fireplace and that's. They spent money on that. Yeah, like actual real money. [00:31:17] Speaker B: Yeah. This is a lush film. [00:31:19] Speaker A: Yeah. 100 million budget. [00:31:21] Speaker C: No. [00:31:22] Speaker B: 200. [00:31:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100 million. [00:31:26] Speaker C: Is that adjusted? Because films did not cost 100 million back then unless they were Titanic. Like this might be adjusted in. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Like this is what it says on Wikipedia. [00:31:36] Speaker A: That's what it says on. On IMDb. So it says. It says estimated. [00:31:42] Speaker C: I'm guessing that's adjusted because this is probably like 70 to 80 mil budget. 99. [00:31:51] Speaker B: We'll see where it cites that it was 100. [00:31:53] Speaker C: Well, because if it was 100 million, then it making 200 million isn't that much of a success. Like it needs at least a 3 multiplier to be like a huge box office smash. [00:32:06] Speaker A: I. I don't. I just watched the thing, dude. [00:32:09] Speaker C: Oh, this was. [00:32:11] Speaker A: This was before I knew anything about the business of show. [00:32:15] Speaker C: Oh yeah. That's what I am. That's what I'm there for. The backups. The like I was an Entertainment Tonight kid. [00:32:23] Speaker B: It was adjusted. It's 70 million. [00:32:26] Speaker A: Nice. [00:32:27] Speaker C: Knew it. [00:32:27] Speaker B: The $70 million movie, baby. [00:32:30] Speaker C: Yeah. 70 million makes 200. That's a. That's a hit. [00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah. That's good. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Good job, guys. [00:32:37] Speaker A: Speaking of good stuff, we get a good story about what's going on. The all the old men bring Ichabod into. [00:32:44] Speaker B: Well, the coach. She gets picked by the Pickety Witch. [00:32:47] Speaker A: I. I said he got. [00:32:49] Speaker B: I just like saying Pickety Witch. The Pickety Witch. And then out comes Rom's about to attack her. But then Van Tassel's like yo, yo, yo, yo. Not my house. [00:32:58] Speaker C: He's like, what? We're all happy. Here's 18 year old doing kissing this 35 year old guy. [00:33:04] Speaker A: It's like you are you. You are welcome. Even if you are selling something. [00:33:09] Speaker C: I'm Jeffrey Jones and this is creepy to me. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Michael Gambon does do a great job in this. He's just excellent as Baltus. And he's like how much they tell you? [00:33:24] Speaker C: Great. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Come on, let's go talk. And he like, he does like the secret like wink to like the Doctor, the Magistrate, the Reverend and the professor. [00:33:36] Speaker C: Against the Dark Arts. [00:33:38] Speaker B: The professor against the dark. [00:33:40] Speaker A: The Notary. The notary. [00:33:42] Speaker B: Notary Hardenbrook. [00:33:44] Speaker C: Alfred. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Alfred. Michael Goo Gow. I don't know how to go. Michael Gough. [00:33:50] Speaker C: Michael Gough. [00:33:51] Speaker A: And we get the story of the German Hessian soldier who was imported to help quiet the rebellion in the colonies there, Johnny. [00:34:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And he's a terrifying visage of Christopher Walken with pointed teeth. [00:34:08] Speaker A: And then. [00:34:09] Speaker C: Well, you cut off his head. Well, they cut off his head. Yeah, they cut off his head with his own sword. Yeah. You guys are a little younger. Do you remember Christopher Walken before he was this Christopher? Like, no, this is the last moment that that could have been Christopher Walken, that role, because it's tiny. It's a character, like, character actor part. He was, you know, when I was growing up, he was just, like, a scary guy that you would get, like, in cheesy horror movies a lot. Like the prophecy. The. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Prof. I was about to say he was. [00:34:45] Speaker C: The prophecy guy, and then he would pop up here and there. But it was really like 99, 2000 when. And when he, like, became. Everybody knows Christopher Walken. I mean, he was always. Yeah, he was always good on snl. He was always funny. He always had great characters. I remember that. But, like, what's this year is he has this bit part, but then he's in Blast from the Past and he gets to be funny for the first time, and then he's in that Fat Boy Slim video, and then that's. [00:35:21] Speaker B: That's huge. [00:35:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Why is he wearing another man's underwear? [00:35:26] Speaker C: And then he's like, oh, it's Christopher Walken. He talks weird and he's funny and. But I'm like, I think this is the last time he was, like, scary Christopher Walken. Like, oh, this. [00:35:39] Speaker B: I remember seeing his Continental sketch on snl, and I was way too young and being really confused and be like. [00:35:43] Speaker C: I don't get this at all. That was a great sketch that could not play now. [00:35:48] Speaker B: I don't. Yeah, I don't. I just remember being a kid and being like, I don't get it. [00:35:51] Speaker A: I was. I was a mad TV kid, so I eschewed snl. [00:35:56] Speaker C: He's trapping the woman in his apartment and won't let her go. [00:35:59] Speaker B: He's like, Pepe Le Pew. [00:36:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:03] Speaker A: That'S an unproblematic skunk, let me tell you. [00:36:06] Speaker B: Yeah, what's the deal? He's French. [00:36:08] Speaker C: He does French. [00:36:09] Speaker A: He's going up. He's going after that lady cat. But we. We learn, you know, not from the old men, but from the visualization that is accompanying the story that a couple of young girls were out collecting some firewood. Johnny and their mucking about is actually what leads to the. The Hessian getting captured. [00:36:33] Speaker B: And, yeah, they see him and this one girl snaps a stick to war to warn the American soldiers and they cut his head off. Bloody battle. A lot of their heads get. They get hit a little bit. Then he gets hit. [00:36:48] Speaker A: He did not go quietly. [00:36:50] Speaker B: He did not go quietly into the night. I love when they first show him in the battlefield, he's like, roaring and throwing his sword. How the heads, just because they're practical, they're not cg. So they just go, like, go straight up. It's so great. I love a lot of the practical effects of this. It uses cg. Well, it's just a couple little touches and little modifications, obviously deleting the head. [00:37:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:10] Speaker B: And the collar is actually all cg. If you didn't know they. They use it. It's right. It's right that. That it's, you know, too close to Phantom Menace to be so influenced visual effects wise by the Phantom Menace. Because it came out like six months later. [00:37:25] Speaker C: Yeah, well, there was a thing when they were filming on those same stages, the Phantom Menace was using a lot of green screen and Sleepy Hollow had to hide the ceilings because they didn't need big ceilings for Phantom Menace. It was just a green screen. But they were trying to make the. That's why there's a lot of smoke and mist and everything around, because they have to hide the ceilings. [00:37:53] Speaker A: That is. That is amazing. I love the. The practicality helps, Lindsay. To the tone. [00:37:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Instead of using cg, they just like, no, we'll hide it, be creepy. [00:38:03] Speaker B: That's great. [00:38:04] Speaker A: And it works. Yeah, it does. And very quickly we get the first Horseman murder after Ibad joins the town. [00:38:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:14] Speaker A: First he. [00:38:14] Speaker B: First he's like, no, no, no, no. They tell him this story. He's like, murder needs no ghosts come from the grave. And gives them the whole lowdown. And they're like. You'll see. They're basically like, okay, whatever you say, dude. And, yeah, he. He. We get a first murder. [00:38:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Just chops down old man Nesbitt himself. Nazibeth Nazbith. Whatever. You know. You know what? You know what? [00:38:40] Speaker B: Jonathan Nesbit. I'm Mrs. Nesbit. Yeah. The Mazbeths. Because his son is an important character. [00:38:48] Speaker A: Yeah. He becomes. He becomes Ichabod's lackey. [00:38:50] Speaker B: He's got that cool, like, fort with all the spiky sticking out of it. It does him no good because he leaves the fort. Should have stayed in it. [00:38:59] Speaker A: Yeah, he should have. [00:39:00] Speaker B: But he. Yeah, he gets his head cut off right after the. In the tendrils turn out to turn out the lamps. [00:39:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:08] Speaker B: And then he gets decapitated. [00:39:10] Speaker A: We get. We get introduced to Gunpowder, the big horse who doesn't listen to Ichabod. [00:39:16] Speaker B: Good old Gunpowder. [00:39:17] Speaker A: I love gunpowder. And then we get the first investigation of the crime scene. And like all of these men are there telling Ichabod exactly what happened. And he's like, I don't think that happened. And then ultimately comes to the conclusion of. Okay, yeah, you guys are right. He's got his fucking swoopy, swoopdy glasses and he opens up the neck and a little beetle comes out. [00:39:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, this is the only. This is the one where he has the realization. He's the only one that realizes that the sword is hot. Like, yeah, like cauterized immediately. That's his one contribution to the whole thing. [00:39:58] Speaker B: Like, this is totally right because he's like scorched flesh. He grabs his little talisman. He's like the devil's fire. And he's like, he's right. It is the devil's fire. [00:40:07] Speaker C: But it is weird that they never visualize the sword like flaming or being hot or hot. Anything. [00:40:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it just is. [00:40:16] Speaker A: And then they've got the. The burial scene for Jonathan. And that's where. Young man, I'm gonna say the Run Nesbith Masbeth. Naz Masbath. Jesus. [00:40:28] Speaker B: Well, I think what my theory on the cauterizing is because Tim Burton on the commentary or in an interview says he was surprised that it didn't get PG13. Which is hilarious. Like, it's definitely an R rated movie. [00:40:40] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. [00:40:41] Speaker B: But he was like, I would have loved that. 13. What's the problem? And so I think he was aiming for PG13, but by the time they made it, there was no way he could go back. Yeah. Which is crazy. He thinks that would be PG 13. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. He's a crazy man. He's a crazy man. [00:40:54] Speaker B: But he was right. He was like, I would have loved this as a 13 year old boy. Like, you're right. You're right. [00:40:59] Speaker C: I don't know. I think if you make it Today, it is PG 13. [00:41:03] Speaker B: Honestly. You're right. Post Lord of the Rings and like other movies, you. You might be right. Because it's not very bloody. And it's bloody but like, think it's like funny bloody. [00:41:10] Speaker C: Yeah. The blood is never associated with violence though. [00:41:15] Speaker B: Yeah, the blood's like the funny part. [00:41:16] Speaker C: Yeah. The blood is when he's doing examinations or anything. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Else, hilarious. [00:41:21] Speaker C: You never see blood spurting out of, like, necks and like, out of stab wounds. [00:41:27] Speaker A: Which leads us to the next scene, because the magistrates, like, there's. There's four. There's four bodies and three graves. No, five bodies and four graves. That's what it is. And so then we get a whole extra long convoluted scene of Ichabod Crane, like, literally just being like, hey, this dude was right the whole time. [00:41:49] Speaker C: And that guy is Mr. Dursley from Harry Potter. [00:41:53] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. [00:41:54] Speaker C: Keeps taking off his wig to wipe down his hair because he's so sweaty. [00:41:59] Speaker A: But yeah, I like that. They bring the. They bring the widow, they bring her body into the surgery suite. We are going to prepare. We're going to perform surgery. And of course, by that, I mean we will be using the operating table. [00:42:15] Speaker B: Constable, she's dead. [00:42:17] Speaker A: And it takes them a long time and a lot of blood to realize, hey, this lady was pregnant. And then the magistrate's like, yeah, she fucking told me. I told you. [00:42:26] Speaker C: So here's the thing that I noticed while watching a video on it. So he is examining her abdomen, Right? And there's already a mark there. [00:42:38] Speaker B: Yeah, the horseman, like, decapitated. [00:42:41] Speaker C: But did he take the baby's head? Hope not, because that's his whole deal. Like, he has to take the heads. [00:42:50] Speaker A: I mean, I'd like to think so. [00:42:54] Speaker B: I mean, it's canon. [00:42:56] Speaker A: It is what he does. So the Lady Winship was with Childe. And then very shortly after, Ichabod is going home. And we get the classic. The classic Ichabod. [00:43:11] Speaker B: Yes, the toad, Ichabod. [00:43:13] Speaker A: Oh, I guess we also learn in the operating scene that Ichabod makes most of his own items. He makes all of his very impractical tools. [00:43:25] Speaker C: Yes. [00:43:25] Speaker B: I love the little, like, trigger, like, scalpel that goes. [00:43:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's what always squirts him in the eye. Yeah, but so. So Ichabod is crossing the covered bridge on gunpowder. And the frogs are going, Ichabod. And then the horseman shows up and he's got the flaming pumpkin head. [00:43:42] Speaker B: The frogs in the animated one, they say Ichabod at him, right? Yeah, yeah. [00:43:46] Speaker A: There's a chase and the horseman ultimately throws the flaming pumpkin at Ichabod, knocking Ichabod off of gunpowder. And then we learned that it was actually just brawn. [00:43:58] Speaker C: Well, that. That brahm is buddies pumpkin. That scene that's like directly out of the cartoon, like frame for frame, the pumpkin being thrown and hitting him in the face. But also in the cartoon, they never say that that's Bronn. [00:44:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Well, but isn't that the end of the cartoon? [00:44:19] Speaker C: The end of the film is like, that happens. And they never see Ichabod again because. [00:44:23] Speaker A: He runs away or he's dead. [00:44:25] Speaker C: Or he's dead. Yeah, but they never. Because I was watching the cartoon expecting to be like, oh, yeah. And then that's. They reveal that it's Bronn that chased him off, blah, blah, blah. But no, they never do. You're kind of left wondering if it is a real thing or if it was him being chased off. [00:44:44] Speaker A: That's the classic ghost story, though it ends on a question mark. [00:44:47] Speaker B: In the original story, when it's describing his point of view, he's like. Describes that he's hit with a real head. It's a real Horseman. And like, the next day they discover the head was a pumpkin. And it really hints at his bra. Never comes out and says it in the short story. But, like, maybe it was. But yeah. [00:45:05] Speaker C: So, yeah, that cartoon Ichabod is sleeping with, like, every woman in the village. Oh, weird. Yeah. Really? Yeah. That's why he has to be tasted. [00:45:16] Speaker B: Oh. [00:45:18] Speaker C: Because all the women weirdly think he's the hottest guy on earth. Even though he looks. [00:45:23] Speaker A: He's a schoolteacher. [00:45:24] Speaker C: He's learned he looks super. And then, like, when they're like, oh, he's gonna marry the rich girl in town. We gotta get him out of here. And they notice he's suspicious. He's superstitious at a party. They notice he cares a lot about that stuff. So they start telling the story of the Headless Horseman. And then later that night, he's attacked by the Headless Horseman. [00:45:49] Speaker B: Okay. Because he couldn't keep it in his pants, huh? [00:45:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. You don't get the Headless Horseman until the last five minutes of that cartoon. That's. Yeah, it's just one scene. [00:45:59] Speaker B: I really showed it at school and a bunch of kids got scared. [00:46:03] Speaker C: They would show that to us all the time. That was one of the, like, it's raining. Everybody go to the library. [00:46:11] Speaker A: Because you can. You can watch the whole thing in a. In a class, period. [00:46:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:15] Speaker A: Don't have to worry about pausing and remember where you are. [00:46:18] Speaker C: I saw that all the time in. In elementary school. And also, we didn't have to worry. We had VHS tapes. [00:46:26] Speaker A: I was about to say on the. On the vhs. On the vhs. It started with the. The Huey, Dewey and Louie short. Trick or treat. You know, Trick or treat. Trick or treat. We had that bit for Halloween. The big clamshell it also came with the. The Mickey, Goofy and Donald or Ghostbusters. [00:46:47] Speaker B: Oh, it did they. Yeah, because it was originally. Sometimes it's been double billed with Mr. Toad. [00:46:53] Speaker C: Well, it's always double billed with Mr. Toad. Like, both of them are only 30 minutes long. [00:46:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:47:00] Speaker C: And that's how it was released in theaters in 49. It was like, oh, okay. The Adventures of Mr. Toad and Ichabod. [00:47:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:07] Speaker C: Which is a bitch to find on Disney plus because unless you remember that that's the title of it, you cannot find it. [00:47:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:17] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:47:18] Speaker A: And then we get the first of our flashbacks to Ichabod's mother. [00:47:22] Speaker B: That is Lisa Marie, not Presley. [00:47:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:25] Speaker B: Who is Tim Burton's wife at the time. He's got a type. [00:47:29] Speaker C: The proto Helena Bonham Carter, who is. [00:47:32] Speaker B: The proto Monica Bellucci, who. They just got divorced, so. [00:47:37] Speaker C: Well, isn't Ava Green in there between those two? [00:47:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, she was. Yeah. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:41] Speaker C: But yeah, anybody he's dating, he puts in all his. [00:47:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And then we get the. The first appearance of the optical illusion toy that is literally like 18th century fidget center. Like, literally Ichabod just spins it all the time. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Yes. It's the card, though. [00:48:01] Speaker A: Then Ichabod. [00:48:03] Speaker B: And the flashback, like, doesn't show anything explicit. It kind of ends on, like a what's gonna happen? Note. Yeah, but it's his mom being, like, cool and nice to him. That's about it. They show in the first one, right? [00:48:17] Speaker C: Yeah, I think they show floating or isn't that. [00:48:19] Speaker B: That's in the second one, I think they show. [00:48:21] Speaker A: They show his father's face, but, yeah, just like looking through a window. [00:48:26] Speaker B: They show her riding in the fireplace. Yeah, yeah. That's what they show the first one. It's the riding the fireplace. The second one is where she floats. [00:48:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:34] Speaker B: And the third one is when he kills her. [00:48:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And then after a bit of existential freak out, Ichabod decides he's gonna go to the Eastern Wood and he's gonna dig up the Horseman's body. Westernwood. No, no, it's perfectly fine. And young Masbeth is the only one who will go with him. So they're tromping around the woods and then they hear something. And it turns out that Katrina Van Tassel is also man enough to go to the Western Wood. [00:49:08] Speaker B: Don't they encounter someone before Katrina? [00:49:11] Speaker C: Yeah, they go to the Crone. [00:49:13] Speaker A: They go to the. They run into the Crone first. Yeah. [00:49:16] Speaker B: So they go to the Crone. They're walking along, they see this hut and they're like, let's go check out this hut. And it's a crazy crone. [00:49:23] Speaker A: It's a crazy old lady. And she's just like, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do some witchcraft for you here. And then Boaz and, you know, tells him the story of the. The horsemen. [00:49:35] Speaker B: Follow the Indian trail to the Western woods, and you'll find the Horseman's resting place, his camp. [00:49:42] Speaker A: His grave. [00:49:42] Speaker C: His grave. [00:49:45] Speaker A: And so. So they do that. [00:49:46] Speaker C: And she makes the face, her eyes bug out, her tongue is a snake. And this is when. When I thought, do you think he wanted to make it, like a 3D movie? There's so many things he films that are like, popping out at you, jumping out at you, coming straight at, like, the camera maybe. And it just seemed like if he would have made this, like, five or six years later, it definitely would have been in 3D. [00:50:15] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. [00:50:16] Speaker C: Like, Sleepy Hollow 3D. Because there's a lot of stuff that's coming direct at camera. [00:50:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:24] Speaker C: In this movie. [00:50:25] Speaker B: Oh, I would love to see a 3D re release. Let's go. [00:50:28] Speaker C: I'm surprised there hasn't been. You think? I mean, they rolled out. [00:50:31] Speaker B: They did Nightmare. [00:50:32] Speaker C: They did Nightmare every single year. [00:50:35] Speaker A: Oh, shit. Totally, totally skipped the whole thing with the magistrate getting killed before all of this happened. So the magistrate being killed right in front of him is what sends Ichabod into the freak out. And then they go to the Western woods and they meet the Crone. And then he almost shoots Katrina. [00:50:49] Speaker B: Okay, well, we had to go back then. Okay, you're supposed to be keeping us on track. Why are you skipping things? You have the movie in front of you. [00:50:55] Speaker A: You're the one that knows this. Back in front. Why am I the one that's. Okay, keep us on track. [00:50:59] Speaker B: So that's important because that is where he discovers that it is supernatural and is indeed a headless horseman. [00:51:05] Speaker C: Yes. [00:51:05] Speaker B: And he's like, it was a horseman. A dead one. Headless. [00:51:09] Speaker A: We told you. [00:51:09] Speaker B: I saw him. Yeah. Michael Johan's like, yeah, we know. [00:51:13] Speaker C: Everyone knows. Yeah. That's why he keeps passing out, right? [00:51:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:17] Speaker C: Has to wake up. And he's like, what's happened? [00:51:19] Speaker A: The conspirators are having an argument. Then the magistrate leaves. And while the magistrate's trying to leave, he gets the comical. His head spins around after it gets cut. [00:51:32] Speaker B: Yeah, sounds great. I always love that he comes back and picks it up by, like, stabbing it through the head. [00:51:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:38] Speaker B: And we must say that Kevin Yeager and his team, the decapitated heads in this movie look impeccable. They look so good. The special effects are amazing for the heads. They just look. They're great. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And. Oh, geez, where so before that. Because we got to go back again. Katrina. Go back. Katrina Van Tassel shows Ichabod the. The hut that she and her family grew up in before they became rich. And there's an archer in the back of the fireplace. Johnny, the archer. I almost forgot him. Look, the archer. [00:52:13] Speaker C: So, okay, he draws the same symbols his mother was drawing. [00:52:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:52:20] Speaker C: In the ashes of the fireplace. And then he. She gives him the spell book. [00:52:25] Speaker B: Yes. [00:52:26] Speaker A: Well, I think she thinks she gives him the spell book the night before when he wakes in the middle of the night and she's reading. [00:52:32] Speaker C: Okay. [00:52:33] Speaker B: Either way, we skip that, too. David. [00:52:36] Speaker A: John, you put me in charge. What the. You're the one that knows this. [00:52:42] Speaker B: I'm pulling up Wikipedia and I don't trust you anymore. [00:52:44] Speaker A: Okay? So fucking. [00:52:45] Speaker B: A good manager trusts his employees, you know, until he does. Until he proves that he can't. [00:52:50] Speaker A: So who's. Who's the manager? Are you the manager? [00:52:52] Speaker C: Me? [00:52:53] Speaker A: All right, and then. And then we get the Ichabod point that's a pistol at Katrina and accidentally fires. And the movie's over. No, Masbeth. Katrina and Ichabod follow the Indian trail to the tree of the dead. [00:53:09] Speaker C: Tree ever made. [00:53:10] Speaker A: Most Tim Burton. [00:53:10] Speaker B: Oh, it's the most Tim Burton tree that ever. Tim Burton looks like a sand worm. It's got, like, an open mouth. [00:53:15] Speaker A: Ibad. Ibad hits the tree with an axe a couple of times, and it sprits blood instead of SAP. Real nice and gross. [00:53:24] Speaker B: That's really gross. He gets pretty gnarly in that. [00:53:27] Speaker A: And then he ends up seeing a sword stabbed into the ground by the tree. And so he digs and he finds the Horseman's body, but there is no head. [00:53:36] Speaker B: Someone has taken the head. [00:53:37] Speaker A: And then while Ichabod's just staring there at the skeleton body, the tree starts to tremble with life. And the Horseman jumps out of the tree. [00:53:48] Speaker C: You forgot that. He chops open the tree first, and there's a whole bunch of decapitated heads inside. [00:53:54] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, they attack him. [00:53:56] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that was part of. That was part of the blood gets. [00:53:58] Speaker B: Everywhere, maybe just, like, say, apart. Let us a minute to riff on it and then move on, David. [00:54:06] Speaker C: Yeah, because he opens up the tree, and there's just. All the people's decapitated heads are in. [00:54:11] Speaker A: I have also seen this movie so many times that I just like the Order doesn't Really fucking matter to me. It's just here. [00:54:19] Speaker B: Damn. [00:54:20] Speaker A: And so this is actually the gnarliest. The gnarliest dispatching of the horsemen ever. This is to get the old midwife and her husband and regrettably, their child. And I think kids get that spooky lantern. [00:54:37] Speaker C: Yeah. I think this is the first part of the movie where you're like, this is 100% supernatural. [00:54:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:44] Speaker C: You watch. [00:54:45] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like 100% confirmed tree. [00:54:48] Speaker C: And just take off riding into the village. They're like, oh, this is not going to be somebody in a headless horseman suit, you know, riding a horse. This is 100% a supernatural occurrence. [00:55:02] Speaker B: Yes. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Looked like such a wonderful evening at the midwife's home, though, before the. The Horseman comes in. [00:55:10] Speaker B: I know, they were just chilling. They were being sweet to each other. [00:55:13] Speaker A: Uh huh. Kids playing with his weirdo lantern. [00:55:16] Speaker B: Weirdo kid. [00:55:17] Speaker A: And then like, the kid thinks he's safe, but then the Horseman, like, comes back for him. And it is the scream of the child that alerts Bronn to the presence of the Horseman. And he's like, oh, I gotta go take care of this. And Bronn starts fighting the Horseman foolishly. [00:55:36] Speaker B: Foolishly. [00:55:37] Speaker A: Foolishly. He's like, no, Brunt, Brun. No, no. [00:55:39] Speaker C: He. [00:55:40] Speaker A: He's trying to leave you alone. Just let him go. Just let him go. And bronze like, oh, fuck no. You know, Ichabod somehow able to convince Bron to just fucking run. But then, you know, Bronn has sufficiently pissed off the horsemen that he follows. [00:55:54] Speaker C: Yes. [00:55:55] Speaker B: Well, Bronn gets some sweet skies. He gets to like, slam with these skies wherever you say it. [00:56:02] Speaker C: He also has that sickles. [00:56:03] Speaker B: Are they sickles? [00:56:04] Speaker C: They are. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:06] Speaker C: He has that cool rifle with the big scope on it. [00:56:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:09] Speaker C: To take shot. But then ultimately he ends up being cleft in twain. [00:56:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:16] Speaker B: You definitely see the ray parkiness of the Horseman in this scene. He's like flipping all the axes around and shit. [00:56:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And then Ichabod gets like, sword in the shoulder and flung over. [00:56:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Which I was like, man, that would kill him. [00:56:33] Speaker A: That would suck. Yeah, that would suck so bad. And then. And Ichabod, of course, faints again. And then we come to with Papa Palpatine being like, I'm just gonna stick my fingers in this wound. [00:56:45] Speaker C: But also, like, the wound is already healed because it's a hot sword. [00:56:49] Speaker A: Because the devil's fire. [00:56:51] Speaker C: Yeah. It's cauterized immediately. [00:56:53] Speaker A: And then we cut to Katrina making some sort of potion. [00:56:56] Speaker B: A brew. [00:56:57] Speaker A: A witch's brew. If you will. And then she brings it up. She brings up a cup for Ichabod to drink. There's the. The touching scene of Ibad being like, oh, you just lost your. You just lost your man. And she's like, you know what? I'm good. [00:57:16] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, cool. [00:57:19] Speaker A: He's. Yeah. [00:57:20] Speaker C: I'm sad. Not really, but, you know. [00:57:23] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:57:25] Speaker B: And this is when Ichabod's like, all right, someone's digging up this. Dig up this skull. So there's gotta be something behind it. So a man of flesh and blood. [00:57:35] Speaker A: As I've always said, dig up them bones. [00:57:41] Speaker B: You gotta dig up them bones. [00:57:43] Speaker A: So he. He does a little bit of thinking out loud and trying to do some Sherlock Holmesiness and writes down disconnected thoughts in a very weird way. I like the pin he uses, though. It's fun. That pin probably costs, like, $700. [00:57:59] Speaker B: It's a nice pen. [00:58:00] Speaker A: It's a nice pen. And then he realizes that he needs to go see the notary, because currently everything is pointing to Baltus. He's like, conspiracy, the secret. Let's go see the notary. They go down to the notary's place, and it just, like, it looks. It. It looks. I have been in a room like that before. It looks like that. [00:58:21] Speaker B: That bookstore, that one on the corner. That's closed, I think. [00:58:26] Speaker C: Yeah, it's closed now. [00:58:28] Speaker B: That place. Like, those books are holding that place up, man. [00:58:30] Speaker A: Yeah, they were. Oh, Eli, I found. I once found a structural ashtray on top of a book. Holding up one whole shelf of a book yourself in that. In that store. And then very quickly, like, made my way out as quickly as I could without, you know, tripping over everything, because they're also, like, ripped pages all over the floor. So it was really slippery. [00:58:56] Speaker C: That's the place I refused to go into after talking for two minutes with the owner. [00:59:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:59:03] Speaker A: That it was allowed to be open for as long as it was is incredible. Man had to have been connected. The notary is just hiding. They pull him out of his closet and get him to spill all the things, because young Jonathan Masbeth finds his father's satchel. And then within that satchel is the last will and testament of what's his face. What is that guy's name? [00:59:30] Speaker B: Van Garrett. [00:59:31] Speaker A: Van Garrett. [00:59:34] Speaker B: Yes. [00:59:34] Speaker A: So Van Garrett seal broken. Oh, I'm a. [00:59:39] Speaker B: He gives the game away because he says. He says, we were drawn in against our will. He goes, your will? And that's when he puts it together that it's. The priest married them. Yeah, The Doctor saw the widow for her pregnancy. [00:59:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:55] Speaker B: The. The midwife would have known about it. [00:59:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:58] Speaker B: Who else? [00:59:59] Speaker A: The note. [01:00:00] Speaker B: The. [01:00:00] Speaker A: The. [01:00:01] Speaker B: The magistrate was like an advisor, so he would have. He knew. He knew. Yeah. [01:00:06] Speaker C: Was he a witness to the wedding? [01:00:10] Speaker B: The witness mask was a witness to the will signing. [01:00:14] Speaker A: To the will signing. So the. The magistrate obviously did all the legal paperwork for it. I think so. I think he drew up the will. [01:00:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah. You had all the. All the conspirators drawn into the plot. [01:00:25] Speaker A: And the secret conspiracy points to Baltus. They get back to then Baltus Van Tassel. Katrina Van Tassel is waiting in Ichabod's room. [01:00:34] Speaker B: Room or sabotaging Kebab's room. [01:00:36] Speaker A: He's like, you're. You're in my room. Why are you in my room? And she says, because it is yours. [01:00:41] Speaker B: Very sweet. [01:00:42] Speaker A: And then she's like, your father wants you to get the. Out of. My father wants you to get the out of your house. His house. Because you left your book open, you dumb. Dumb. [01:00:54] Speaker C: Well, did the father find it or did Katrina find it and tell. [01:00:58] Speaker B: She says. She says. She makes a joke about it. She says perhaps he looked in your ledger and did not like what he saw because she saw it. [01:01:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:05] Speaker B: And she sees him stuff all his evidence into the drawer. And that's important for later. [01:01:09] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. And then. And then he freaks out because there's a spider. And he's like, young Mazbeth. Goodness. And Mazbeth chases it under the bed. And he's like, hey, there's something more than a spider down here. Let's look at this. I love. [01:01:22] Speaker B: He goes. He goes. Kill it. Kill it. No, stun it. [01:01:26] Speaker A: And then there's some witchy symbols chocked onto the floor underneath a Kabbat's bed with pink chalk. [01:01:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Where are they getting Pink Chalk in 1799? [01:01:37] Speaker B: That's some expensive chalk, man. [01:01:41] Speaker A: Who's fancy enough to have pink chalk? And then later that night, Ichabod is pondering. He's. Then he hears some noises down at the bottom of the house. [01:01:52] Speaker B: He follows Masmuth. [01:01:54] Speaker C: Get up. [01:01:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Follows a cloaked figure out into the woods and then stumbles across the craziest woodland sex that anyone. [01:02:04] Speaker B: They just have some wood sacks. It's. It's the. It's the father. The preacher. Reverend Phillips. [01:02:10] Speaker A: Who don't really. We don't know that yet. [01:02:13] Speaker B: You kind of knew. You see his dirty ass back. [01:02:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:17] Speaker B: I guess you don't find out till later because he turns his head later. Yeah. [01:02:19] Speaker A: Yeah, but you see his natural hair, not his. His powdered wig. And this is the first time we've seen his hair under. Under the wig. [01:02:26] Speaker B: And he's going to town on Mary, the stepmother, who I believe is named Mary. [01:02:31] Speaker A: Do it. During this act, she takes a sacrifice, like a. An ornamental dagger and slices her hand open. Why? [01:02:41] Speaker B: Because there's some crazy wood sex. [01:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:44] Speaker C: Do you think that's what got them? The rated R is the. [01:02:48] Speaker A: Probably the wood sex? [01:02:50] Speaker C: Maybe if they would have cut that out or cut around it more, it would have been pg 13. [01:02:55] Speaker A: I also think the exposed vertebral column inside the neck probably went a long way towards the Reyjodar. And then when Masbeth and Ichabod get back from watching some crazy wood sex, they notice that his room has been broken into. The drawer has been opened and the evidence removed. So Ichabod rides out to the cottage with the archer in the fireplace to find Katrina burning the evidence. She says, I will protect my father. [01:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I will not have you accuse him of controlling this Horseman man. [01:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that's a crazy thing to leverage against somebody's parent. So. And they have. Oh, man. A falling out. Like, basically a falling out. An admission of their feelings for each other and a. I don't ever want to see your face ever again. All at the same time. [01:03:48] Speaker B: Sad. [01:03:49] Speaker A: So sad. [01:03:50] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a bittersweet little scene. He says, like, I think you love me the day you followed me into the Western woods. He's just mean to her. [01:03:57] Speaker A: So I think. I think. I think we've danced around it long enough, Johnny. Christina Ricci. Bonk. [01:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah, she's hot in this movie. What do you want me to say? [01:04:07] Speaker A: I have. [01:04:08] Speaker B: How old is she in this movie? I'm not. I'm not ashamed of that. [01:04:10] Speaker A: She's 18, so. Okay. [01:04:12] Speaker B: That's kind of creepy, though. I guess I was 12 when I saw it, so it's. Yeah, yeah. [01:04:15] Speaker A: I'm going by, like, Christina Ricci now. Oh. Oh, hell yeah. But, like, Christina Ricci has always been just older than me through my entire life. So that way, every point in my life where I could have a crush, it has somehow always been Christina Ricci. [01:04:33] Speaker C: See, she is my exact age, so I remember seeing her in Addam's family. I've tracked her my entire life, but. [01:04:45] Speaker A: I absolutely fell in love with her when I saw Adam's Family for the first time. [01:04:49] Speaker C: I had that on vhs like I said when the Beatles, and had it on vhs. [01:04:53] Speaker A: Now with this conversation, we get to Bring up the fact. Have you ever seen the dress she wore to the red carpet premiere? Or the premiere and the red carpet of Sleepy Hollow? [01:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I imagine you should Google it. [01:05:05] Speaker A: Right now while I vamp a little bit. [01:05:07] Speaker C: Well, here's the thing that I wanted to pose. So he's there to investigate a crime. [01:05:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:15] Speaker C: If he, like, does bring back. Hey, somebody has a dead horseman's head, and it's controlling a ghoul. Is that really illegal? Is that, like, a crime that can be tried in court? So does Christina Ricci really need to worry about her father? Because I'm. [01:05:36] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know. Probably not this time. His. His wealth. Probably not, Right? Did you find it yet, Johnny? [01:05:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's great looking dress. [01:05:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:47] Speaker B: Nice purple number. [01:05:49] Speaker A: It is like, three molecules away from being completely transparent. Yeah, especially under those late 90s flashbulbs. [01:05:59] Speaker B: Got it. Young David masturbated this. [01:06:02] Speaker C: Got it registered that Entertainment Weekly was not safe. [01:06:07] Speaker B: Hey, I had a Natalie Horman, Entertainment Weekly. You back off. [01:06:11] Speaker A: I'll have you know it was the sci Fi magazine. Thank you very much. [01:06:16] Speaker C: Wow. [01:06:16] Speaker A: And then we go from there to Ichabod hanging in the kitchen with Mrs. Van Tassel and her being like, I saw you. I saw you saw me do the wood Sick. You know. You know, I wanted you to see me doing the wood six right here. Look at my hand. I saw you. So you see me doing this while. [01:06:36] Speaker B: You haven't mentioned it, which would have been the polite thing. [01:06:40] Speaker A: And then Mr. Van Tassel comes in, and he's like, oh, my God, everybody hates you at Kabad. They're gonna. They're calling a town meeting. Holy. What did you do to your hand? [01:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah, so funny. They're all there to rail against you. She's like, I know where some arrow root grows. I want to go cut it off and put some arrowroot on it. [01:06:58] Speaker A: She's like, it's no pray. It's no big deal. I'll take care of it. And she gives him the, like, looks after Ichabod with the knowing look. And then we cut to her picking the arrowroot. I wonder what the direction for how she was to pick the arrow route was given. [01:07:14] Speaker B: Lean over boobier. [01:07:17] Speaker A: Boobier. [01:07:18] Speaker B: More booby. She's getting branded her Sims got him out. [01:07:23] Speaker A: Yep. And then, you know, speaking of got him out, Johnny the Horseman, he's got it out for her. Coming. He's coming toward her with his sword unsheathed. [01:07:31] Speaker B: Indeed he is. That's all Van Tassel sees and he runs and looks. Sounds like she was killed by the Horsemen to me. I don't know. [01:07:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it's me too. And he's. He's like, she's been slain by the Horsemen. [01:07:42] Speaker B: Get in this church. [01:07:43] Speaker A: Is everybody get in the church. Get this church. [01:07:46] Speaker B: And so, you know, get this great set piece. This is a great scene. I love it. [01:07:51] Speaker A: And like the. The horseman, like, comes down the main street as everybody's rushing into the church. And then Masbeth and Nicobot are like. [01:07:58] Speaker B: Oh, the last two wings. Like, I don't want to go to this meeting, but I guess I should go. [01:08:04] Speaker A: And then all the men, all the men just start, you know, firing at the Horsemen. You know, that's doing a lot of good. [01:08:10] Speaker B: He gets up to the gate, he's like, what the. And he throws his ax over and it melts. [01:08:14] Speaker A: It turns into the dust. And Ichabod's like, it's consecrated land. He can't enter. [01:08:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:20] Speaker A: And all the men are just like, nah, fuck this. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do my rifles. I mean, these men were in the Revolutionary War. They should know that you don't all shoot at once. So that way you have somebody shooting and somebody reloading at every given moment. Because those things take for fucking ever to reload. [01:08:37] Speaker C: Well, also, do you think they were in the Revolutionary War? They were pretty old. [01:08:41] Speaker B: Be 20 years later. [01:08:42] Speaker A: Be 20 years later. So the older ones. [01:08:44] Speaker C: Yeah, well, they would have been in like their 40s, mid-40s, during the war. I don't think they would have actually. [01:08:51] Speaker A: Well, no, no, like the, like the. The rest of the. The rest of the townsmen, those are all. Those are all like 40 year old men. [01:08:57] Speaker B: They're like, I didn't read. My brother Sam is dead. They were. They were making 16 year olds fighting that war. [01:09:02] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. You ever. You ever shot a muzzle loader, Johnny Eloy? [01:09:06] Speaker C: Not a muscle, no. No. [01:09:08] Speaker A: Oh, man. [01:09:08] Speaker B: No, my. [01:09:09] Speaker A: My wife. So, yeah, we. We had to help him make candles. We had to help him make hardtack. Ugh. The worst part about hardtack was eating it. [01:09:19] Speaker C: Did you pee on the brass buttons? [01:09:22] Speaker A: No, no, he. He just used vinegar for that. We. We had to help him make his little things because, you know, they'd set them up so that way you've got your little paper and you've got your musket ball and you've got your. Oh, your gunpowder in one end. So that way you pour the gunpowder and then you just reuse the paper as the wadding so it gives something for the ball to go out of. Oh, it's fucking cool. You should. You should shoot a moza loader. Johnny, you were in Oklahoma. And in Oklahoma, annually, they have a meeting of automatic weapons enthusiasts. And at the close of this conference, every year, they have this thing called Shoot the Car, where they take a car that somebody has donated, roll it down a hill, and people shoot at it with their fucking automatic rifles until it explodes. [01:10:16] Speaker B: Wow. That's very Oklahoma. [01:10:18] Speaker A: I'm a little embarrassed that I find that so fascinating. I just. I just want to watch the car explode. Fuck the guns. [01:10:25] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm sure everybody that attends that is super chill and. [01:10:28] Speaker A: Oh. [01:10:29] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, like, very cool, dude. [01:10:31] Speaker A: Very chill hangs. Chill hangs. But back to the topic at hand. We've got the Horsemen, The Horseman still prancing around outside because he can't enter the consecrated ground, and he's getting shot at. And the conspirators, the Reverend and the Doctor, are all rah, rah, rah, rah, rah against Van Tassel. And the doctor comes clean. And then as soon as the doctor comes clean, the Reverend hits him in the head with a cross. [01:10:59] Speaker B: Kind of kills him. [01:10:59] Speaker A: Kind of like I did to that one guy at Mass when I was in fifth grade and hit him in the head with the Only. I didn't kill him, but I did hit him in there. [01:11:09] Speaker B: Did you do it on purpose, or was it an accident? [01:11:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I did do it on purpose, because I thought he was playing around, because I did not believe that anybody could ever actually seriously kneel before the cross and. And cross themselves to it. I also knew the guy to be an absolute asshole. So I thought it was. I thought it was a joke. And so I was like, stand up, Junior. Fuck are you doing? And then from that day forward, was never allowed to carry the cross as a server ever again. I had to do the other ancillary tasks. [01:11:37] Speaker B: Man, you screwed that up for yourself. [01:11:39] Speaker A: Yeah. But anyway, so worst thing to happen. [01:11:42] Speaker C: In a Catholic church. [01:11:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:44] Speaker A: So Doctor gets. Doctor gets beamed. Pastor gets shot by Van Tassel himself. And then Van Tassel's like, oh, oh. And then we see that the Horseman has been. [01:11:57] Speaker B: He actually says, there's conspiracy here, and I will seek it out. [01:12:02] Speaker A: Very. [01:12:04] Speaker B: Something. [01:12:05] Speaker A: We see that the. The. The Horseman has been doing some tasks outside. He's been getting some rope, just some random rope just, you know, conveniently left on the fence. He breaks off a bit of the fence that's nice and pointy. And he makes himself Like a harpoon. And he just chucks it at the church. And then as soon as Baltus says that he will uncover the conspiracy, just. [01:12:28] Speaker B: Like the spear appears through his chest violently red. [01:12:34] Speaker A: And Katrina just passes him. Oh, wait, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because she's still down on the floor doing some stuff. And she looks up and she's like, oh, my God. And then Fantastic gets pulled out of the window and dragged until he runs into the fence. And then Ichabod and Katrina run up to the window to see what's happening just in time to see Fantastic get his head cut off. And then Katrina faints. And then Ichabod says, oh, no, what's this? Pink chalk. What's that? Devil symbols. She done did some witchcraft in the church, Johnny. [01:13:09] Speaker B: And so he assumes that she is summoning this horseman. [01:13:13] Speaker A: Yeah. He says, this is a. This is a. This is a hex girl. She's gonna put a spell on me. And so then he. He goes back all sad. [01:13:20] Speaker B: This is my big titty goth girlfriend. [01:13:22] Speaker A: He looks. He looks at his. His. His notebook that is just all like heart eyes, Katrina. And just like burns it. And he's like, goodbye to this. Can't lust after no witch. [01:13:35] Speaker C: But shouldn't he recognize that there are good witches? Since his mother was a witch and he knew that he should. [01:13:43] Speaker A: He's an idiot. That's the thing. That's the thing I never realized is he's just a fucking doofus. [01:13:49] Speaker C: Because he's like, my mother was great. She was just a child. What does he say? A child of nature. [01:13:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:13:55] Speaker C: A woman of nature or something like that. So he knows there are good witches and that they have been persecuted. So why does he get all up in arms without going first, like. So is this good witchcraft or bad witchcraft? [01:14:09] Speaker A: Oh, dang. I don't know. I don't know when he has the last. The last flashback of his. Of his mom. [01:14:16] Speaker B: Well, he has the last. Well, she gets Iron Maiden by his dad. [01:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And when he sees that it's his mom and the iron maiden, he falls back against another torture device. That's what gives him his hand scars. [01:14:30] Speaker C: Yeah. And earlier in the movie, he says he doesn't remember where he gets. Got those hand scars. [01:14:34] Speaker A: He's had them since he could remember. [01:14:37] Speaker C: Or had them since he could remember. Yeah. He's like. They're like, what are these? And it's like, I don't know. I've just always had these. I don't know what happened. [01:14:43] Speaker A: And me being. Me being an idiot. The first time you see him, it's after he's playing with one of his toys. I always thought that he, like, just gave them to himself while playing with one of his toys in the. I was such a dumbass. Still. Still amazing. Just less so. And so then he makes this dramatic exit, and he's like, hey, Mazbeth, guess what? The world fucking sucks, and I'm not gonna help. [01:15:09] Speaker B: He's like. He's like, oh, yeah. Some kind of strange kind of witch with a kind and loving heart. [01:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And then, you know, Ichabod gets in the carriage to go back to New York City. [01:15:21] Speaker B: Mazmith disses him as you are bewitched by reason. I'm beaten down by it. [01:15:26] Speaker A: And so the end. [01:15:27] Speaker C: Done. [01:15:28] Speaker B: The end. It was Katrina. [01:15:30] Speaker C: Leave them all to the Horsemen. [01:15:32] Speaker A: And then. And then Katrina. Katrina wakes up and goes to her window and appears in the window, like, the second after Ichabod stops looking up at it just to see him riding away. Ichabod's just like. And then they. They pass by the doctors, and he sees the body being unloaded from the cart of Mrs. Van Tassel and is. He notices something strange about it, but doesn't think too hard about it. [01:16:03] Speaker B: Then he's thinking and thinking. [01:16:05] Speaker A: He thinks a little bit. And then when they're just outside of town, he pulls out the little book that Katrina gave him, flips to the page that has the big symbol that Katrina's been drawing on everything. And it is protections for a loved one against evil. And then he's like, oh, driver, turn the back around. [01:16:23] Speaker B: Yeah, let's go back. [01:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And so he goes back to the doctors and, you know, declares that this body was dead when this one was made. And let me tell you, that weren't no dead body doing that wood sex. So I know for sure this is a dupe. [01:16:39] Speaker C: But also. Okay, so he looks in the book that he has of witchcraft spells. [01:16:44] Speaker A: Yes. That he. That he decides not to burn at the last second while burning his notebooks before leaving. [01:16:51] Speaker C: But. But also, couldn't he just have done that the first time he saw the symbol? [01:16:56] Speaker B: He should have. [01:16:57] Speaker A: He should have. [01:16:58] Speaker C: Then he's an idiot. What's this symbol? Wait a minute. I have a book that tells me what all these symbols are. Let me quick look what this is. [01:17:07] Speaker A: I mean, it's not like he didn't think about the lady who gave it to him. His every waking moment. [01:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:13] Speaker A: So then after he discovers, like, immediately after he discovers that this body was dead before this hand was made. We Cut to Katrina sitting sad in the withdrawing room. And she turns around and she's spooked because it's her stepmother. And she says, oh, my stepdaughter. You look as if you've seen a ghost. And then Katrina faints. [01:17:34] Speaker B: Everyone's fainting. [01:17:35] Speaker A: Everyone's fainting. Man, they got the vapors. And then, I love that Ichabod said steals the. The carriage while the driver is taking a. Because I was like, ah, trying to pull his pants up. Poor dude getting his cart stolen. So. So then we get a nice little montage of watching Mrs. Van Tassel go about the ceremony to bring the horsemen to draw him so he can recapture his head. And it's intercut with. With Ichabod going, like, to every place they've gone in the movie already. Being like, it's to the next place. Kind of funny. Kind of funny. And so then the. The horseman. The horseman is summoned forth. [01:18:19] Speaker B: And we see it from the other end for the first time. We see Mary, the stepmother. [01:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:24] Speaker B: Summon the horseman with their head. A head for a head. [01:18:27] Speaker A: Yeah. They're in the windmill and, you know, she. She James Bond villain explains it all. The conspiracy perfectly, as Ichabod had laid out. Laid it out. Except for it wasn't Baltus Van Tassel, it was her. [01:18:43] Speaker B: Yes. Because if Balta's dead, she gets it all. [01:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah. But only if she's next of kin is also gone. Because her family took everything from her. Kicked old, old man. Oh, shit, I forgot his name already. Van Garrett. [01:18:59] Speaker B: Let me take this one. David Van Garrett. Van Garrick kicked the Archer family out of their house. [01:19:07] Speaker A: The namesake of the archer in the fireplace. [01:19:09] Speaker B: The namesake of the archer in the fireplace. They went after her father died. They didn't have any way to get money, so they got kicked out. They went to live in the woods. The Van Tassels moved into the little hutch that Katrina showed him. And they prospered and made a ton of money. The other family, the mom died. It's just the two kids. And they are the two kids that saw the horsemen get killed and snap the twig. [01:19:33] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. [01:19:34] Speaker B: So she knew where to dig. She knew where this Horseman was. And she was like, one day I'm gonna dig up this guy's skull and get revenge. Yes. [01:19:45] Speaker A: Actually, she says, I want his skull. [01:19:49] Speaker C: Yes. [01:19:49] Speaker B: Different misfit song. [01:19:54] Speaker A: Come on, Eloque. You gotta join in. [01:19:56] Speaker C: No, it's thrown. Because that is very high pitched. Glenn Dante. [01:20:00] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. I was like, I don't think that's how Glenn dancing sings it. That's. [01:20:04] Speaker A: That's the only way I can sing it. [01:20:06] Speaker C: He's notoriously very low. [01:20:08] Speaker B: Yes. So he. She wants revenge. She wants revenge just like the band name, you know? [01:20:15] Speaker A: Yeah. She wants it. She wants it all. [01:20:17] Speaker B: She wants that money. She wants that. That fat van. Garrett Van Tassel money. [01:20:23] Speaker A: She wants that. [01:20:24] Speaker C: So here's. Here's what I was confused a little about because again, like, I'm going off of memories in a couple videos. Did she make that pledge when she was a kid? [01:20:36] Speaker B: Yeah, she was a long con baby. [01:20:38] Speaker C: Yeah. And she was like, I pledge my soul to Satan and this horseman to get my revenge and then has to wait like 40 years. [01:20:47] Speaker A: Yes, she has to because. Well, she only waits 20 years. But she has to. She has to wait until she is in a position to where she can actually benefit. So she. She's like, okay, somehow as a little child, she works out that she got a Marry rich and then figure out how to legally kill her husband, get away with it. And so basically, it's the. The dawn of the serial killers. You. You. You know when. Do you know why serial killers started sort of as a. As a concept, right, Eloy? [01:21:18] Speaker B: I don't. [01:21:20] Speaker A: So. So they really started around the dawn of life insurance. So people killing a lot of people has happened in the past, but serial killers as we know them didn't really start until people were like, if I kill this motherfucker, I can get money for it. Hell yeah. Serial killers, they're just. [01:21:36] Speaker B: Yeah, but they didn't get any money. They didn't know these people. [01:21:39] Speaker A: Well, the, the, like one of the first female serial killers, I forget her name, was in the town of Austin, Illinois, which is my neighborhood. Before it was a neighborhood of Chicago, it was its own town. She ran a bakery and like, literally had a series of husbands that she took out life insurance policies on. And then they had accidents at the bakery. Are you talking like three of her husbands? [01:22:05] Speaker C: So for women serial killers or for all serial killers. [01:22:08] Speaker A: So for. For the majority of serial killers, like, like the idea is that they know their victim and they're benefiting it and from it in some way. So maybe not the. [01:22:17] Speaker B: I thought the modern serial killer was because of the highway, you can just be anonymous and kill random people. I mean, the way I conceive is literally the exact opposite of what you just said. I always thought it was. [01:22:27] Speaker C: I'm going back to Jack the Ripper guys like OG serial killer, just killing prostitutes. [01:22:33] Speaker A: Okay, okay. [01:22:34] Speaker C: In London. [01:22:35] Speaker A: So maybe the dawn of the American serial killer, because we didn't really have very many. [01:22:40] Speaker B: I don't know if I buy this. I don't know if I buy this. Well, this is an academic journal. [01:22:44] Speaker A: No, I got it from a podcast. [01:22:46] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. You definitely don't have to trust it. [01:22:50] Speaker C: But like, a woman serial killer, that would be like the dawn of the woman serial killer. [01:22:55] Speaker A: Perhaps. [01:22:56] Speaker C: Perhaps. [01:22:57] Speaker A: Okay, so at least there was a strain of serial killer that was born with life insurance. [01:23:04] Speaker B: There you go. [01:23:04] Speaker A: We can say that. [01:23:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:06] Speaker A: I'm. I'm not too proud to admit when I'm wrong. [01:23:10] Speaker C: I don't know. [01:23:12] Speaker A: Because you're right. The. The. The lonely. The lonely plains, the lonely planes. Nobody's. Nobody can hear you scream when you kill somebody on the lonely planes. How many. How many of those old Westmen? And we're just, like, going around killing people for fun. [01:23:26] Speaker C: There's also literally a show about Ed Gein on Netflix right now. [01:23:30] Speaker A: That's a. That's. That's totally different, though. That's. Can. Once you. Once you get into the. Once you get into the middle of the modern century, they. They go crazy. Not only do you have the Ed Gein show, you also have the John Wayne Gacy show. [01:23:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:46] Speaker C: Midwest knows how to kill people. [01:23:48] Speaker B: They sure do. [01:23:49] Speaker A: Fire. Lots of fire. Speaking of fire. Speaking of fire, they catch this windmill on fire on purpose, and they blow it up because it's full of flour. [01:24:01] Speaker B: And yeah, they. They basically, the horseman's coming after everybody. Ichabod gets there. Masmith gets there. Everyone's at the. Everyone's at the windmill. [01:24:09] Speaker A: We get the opening. We get the opening quote. [01:24:12] Speaker B: Horseman comes, and tonight he comes for you. [01:24:15] Speaker C: Does everybody know flour highly combustible? [01:24:18] Speaker A: I mean, hopefully they do now because, yeah, grain silo explosions are a thing that happens a lot. [01:24:24] Speaker C: Well, I'm just saying, the listening public. Flour. If you're in a room and like a bakery and there's flour floating around the air, it is very combustible, Aerosolized. [01:24:37] Speaker A: Small pieces or particles. Very, very combustible. [01:24:42] Speaker B: Interesting. [01:24:43] Speaker A: And so they're riding away. They're. They're on the carriage. They're running away from the. The horsemen. [01:24:49] Speaker B: They're running away and they get this great carriage chase. This is epic back and forth between Ichabod and the Horseman. Ichabod's on the horse. He's backwards. He's hanging off the back of the thing. He's on top of the thing, and the horseman's swinging at him. This is crazy. Car chase. Like, not so Thin. [01:25:05] Speaker A: Then he gets. He stands up on the back of the carriage bridge and then gets hit by a tree. [01:25:09] Speaker B: I love that. That is a great. He goes like. He like braces for it, but he doesn't have a heads. It's so funny. It's great. [01:25:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:15] Speaker C: Great for. Yeah. That is also in the 1949 cartoon. [01:25:20] Speaker A: Really? [01:25:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:25:21] Speaker A: He gets riding the horse backward, right? [01:25:24] Speaker C: The what? Riding the horse backward, but also getting hit by that tree branch. Yeah, it's the same. It's. There's no carriage. It's just a horse chase between the two of them. [01:25:33] Speaker B: Okay, cool. I didn't realize that sort of like since. Probably since elementary school. Since I watched that. [01:25:38] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, you gotta imagine, you know, Tim Burton coming up in Disney. [01:25:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. He. He openly admitted that he, like, wanted as many references to the original cartoon as possible. He said that in interviews or on the commentary. [01:25:52] Speaker A: Fun story. One of my favorite. One of my all time favorite Disney movies is one that he got fired from. [01:25:58] Speaker B: Black Cauldron. [01:25:59] Speaker A: Fox and the Hound. [01:26:00] Speaker C: Fox and making it too creepy. That's how they fired him. [01:26:04] Speaker A: I know, I know. That makes me really weird because nobody likes the Fox and the Hound, but God damn it, I love. I love that Fox and that Hound. Tom and Copper. Oh, man. They're just two best friends who aren't allowed to be best friends because other people are stupid. [01:26:21] Speaker C: Had it on vhs. Had the clamshell. My mother would buy us a Disney movie movie every year for Christmas. [01:26:27] Speaker A: It was. It was so much my favorite that when they put out those special edition lithographs of individual scenes from the movie, I got one of them. I have it framed. I have been told I am not allowed to hang it in the house because it bums Wanda out. [01:26:42] Speaker B: Why she hates the Fox the Hound so much. [01:26:44] Speaker A: She does not like the Fox and the Hound at all. [01:26:47] Speaker B: You can't put it up in, like a closet or nothing. [01:26:50] Speaker A: What's the. What's the point of putting up my wonderful piece of art in the closet? [01:26:53] Speaker B: Because you can open it and look at it and go, ah. [01:26:55] Speaker C: And then. [01:26:56] Speaker B: Or you have a little curtain around it and just like open it up. [01:26:59] Speaker A: It could be like my Declaration of Independence in my Oval office. Yes. [01:27:04] Speaker C: Well, you frame one thing and then on the back you frame the Fox and the Hound and you just flip it over whenever she's not there. And you're just like, ah, Fox and the Hound time. [01:27:16] Speaker B: You just bask in the glory of Tom and Copper. [01:27:20] Speaker A: I'm a hound dog. [01:27:22] Speaker C: Kurt Russell. And was it Mickey Rooney. [01:27:26] Speaker A: Oh, I don't know who did the voices. That's. That is not what I was interested in. I was interested in the shenanigans of that old woman who couldn't leave well enough alone and her crotchety old neighbor. [01:27:40] Speaker C: I know for sure it was Kurt Russell. I don't know the other one. [01:27:44] Speaker A: Also, I wonder if Old lady who just randomly takes home it's Mickey Rooney. [01:27:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:50] Speaker A: Wounded foxes imprinted on my life in any way, shape, or form. [01:27:54] Speaker B: It was also the first film for Brad Bird and John Lasseter. [01:27:58] Speaker A: Ooh, nice. Well, the. The carriage chase takes them to the tree of the damned. Tree of the Dead. Tree of the dead. [01:28:06] Speaker B: Tree of the dead. [01:28:07] Speaker A: And then Mary Van Tassel comes over to, you know, watch the Horsemen finish the job. And it is at that point where she accidentally dropped the skull. And then the Horseman grabs a hold of Katrina and is like, I'm gonna take your skull. I need your skull. [01:28:31] Speaker B: First Ichabod is shot by Mary. Yeah, Ichabod's like also. He's like, run, Katrina. And she's like, yes, run and jump and skip. And then she shoots Ichabod in the chest. [01:28:42] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's fun. I like it when she says skip. But. So, yeah, so the Horseman has Katrina, and then Ichabod gets the skull, and he's like, horseman. And just chucks the. [01:28:52] Speaker B: I love that Horseman. [01:28:54] Speaker C: He. [01:28:55] Speaker B: It's such a perfect opportunity to say heads up. [01:28:58] Speaker A: I like how. I like how the Horseman, like, just, like, sticks his hand out. [01:29:01] Speaker B: Yeah, he doesn't need to turn around. [01:29:03] Speaker A: He just. [01:29:04] Speaker B: One thing I noticed in this time is the Horseman, some great physical bits. Like, they really do some good. Dre Park. I guess my favorite man is killing him. [01:29:12] Speaker C: When you. When you don't have facial expressions, you really got to sell. [01:29:16] Speaker B: You really got to sell emotion. [01:29:17] Speaker A: There's some good, good pantomime. And then I love you. Just. [01:29:20] Speaker B: He, like, Just, like. He's, like, so cool. He just, like, lift his hand, and the horse just flies through his head. [01:29:26] Speaker A: And then, you know, he puts his skull on, and then it, like, CGI's into crazy, into Crazy Jones. And then while that's going on, we see that Ichabod was saved from the bullet by the witchcraft book that Katrina gave him. [01:29:43] Speaker B: Keep it close to your heart. [01:29:45] Speaker A: And then the very first thing the Horseman does after putting his head back on and becoming Christopher Walken is he goes over, and he's like, hell, yeah, this is a good horse. [01:29:55] Speaker C: Oh, I thought you were gonna say he violently kisses that woman until she bleeds. [01:29:59] Speaker A: Oh, no, no. He's gotta. He's gotta take care of. [01:30:00] Speaker B: That's the second thing he does. [01:30:01] Speaker A: That's the second thing he does. He gotta take care of that. That horse. That horse has been off. That horse has been beside him through this entirety. [01:30:08] Speaker B: Let's show some respect to the horse whose name is Daredevil. Daredevil, or in German, D. [01:30:17] Speaker C: Is that the real horse's name or the character? [01:30:20] Speaker B: That's the character he wrote a black steed named Daredevil. It's in the little monologue. [01:30:25] Speaker A: It's when. [01:30:25] Speaker B: It's also from the original story. The Gunpowder. And Daredevil names are both from the. [01:30:30] Speaker A: Original short story, the Violent. The violent kiss. I always thought that he bit her tongue off at this point. [01:30:38] Speaker B: I. Yeah, he could have, but, you know, I mean, she like. Yeah, it could be biting tongue, could be biting lips. [01:30:45] Speaker A: But anyway, he. He gives. [01:30:47] Speaker B: Maybe she has really bad gums and it just decides to start bleeding at that time. [01:30:50] Speaker A: Although I guess if you kiss anybody with a mouth. Teeth like that, you're going to bleed somewhere. [01:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's a 1799. Like, none of them had floss. [01:30:58] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. And they all smelled bad, by Bet. [01:31:02] Speaker B: Oh, terrible. [01:31:03] Speaker A: And so then the. The Horseman's just like, well, time to go back to hell. [01:31:09] Speaker C: And dragged her all the way back to hell. [01:31:11] Speaker A: Yeah, he drags her to hell. Johnny. [01:31:13] Speaker B: Lamia, she gave. [01:31:15] Speaker A: She didn't give the button away, Johnny. She accidentally gave away the collectible coin. Oh, no, not the collectible coin. She still has the button. [01:31:22] Speaker B: She's going to hell. [01:31:23] Speaker A: She's going to hell. [01:31:25] Speaker B: And that's on hbo. Max. [01:31:26] Speaker A: Her hand gets stuck in the tree as. As they go out and it like, beckoning. [01:31:33] Speaker B: It's beckoning. And Ichabod passes out. I almost called Ichabod. Eloy. Sorry. [01:31:40] Speaker A: Eloy Martinez. And then the long carriage ride back to New York City. [01:31:45] Speaker B: New York City. [01:31:47] Speaker A: New York City. They're. They're making some salsa. Johnny, we don't know who's in the carriage. [01:31:52] Speaker B: We don't know. We just see the. [01:31:54] Speaker A: And then we see. We see a sleeping Ichabod being kissed awake by on the Cheek by Katrina Van Tassel. And then they exit the carriage and she is Beetlejuice to the teeth. [01:32:09] Speaker B: Yeah, she's got the Beetlejuice dress on. [01:32:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:32:12] Speaker B: And then it reveals that they brought Masbuth with them. [01:32:16] Speaker A: He's the footman. Yeah, because he. He lost his whole family. And he says, you'll soon. Get your bearings on masmith. The Bronx is up, the Battery is down, and home is this way. [01:32:27] Speaker C: Do you think she has, like a ton, ton of money? Because she's like, small town rich. [01:32:34] Speaker B: She's got. She's got a good amount of money. [01:32:36] Speaker A: But they got a good amount of money. I think. [01:32:39] Speaker C: I think especially New York City. Come on. [01:32:42] Speaker B: New York City. Yeah, you're right. They probably got a studio apartment for. [01:32:46] Speaker A: All three of them at that. At that time, I think. I think it was awash around the turn of the 19th century. [01:32:54] Speaker C: They're living in Manhattan, obviously, if the Bronx is up and the Battery's down. [01:32:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:32:59] Speaker C: They're right there in Midtown. [01:33:01] Speaker B: Yeah, Midtown. [01:33:03] Speaker A: Very exciting. That's. [01:33:04] Speaker C: He's got. He's got Sleepy Hollow money. [01:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. She's got. She got that Beetlejuice money. [01:33:10] Speaker B: The Beetlejuice dress. [01:33:12] Speaker A: Yeah. That is Tim Burton's 1999 Sleepy Hollow. [01:33:18] Speaker C: Yep. [01:33:18] Speaker B: Then we get awesome end credits with the lovely Danny Elfman suite. [01:33:22] Speaker A: Yes, indeed, where it goes. [01:33:33] Speaker C: It's very good music never mentioned this movie shot by Chivo. [01:33:39] Speaker B: Very famous cinematographer. [01:33:40] Speaker C: Right? Yeah. Who is. What's. What is his name? The Spanish director? No, that's the Mexican director. [01:33:52] Speaker B: Oh, well, canceled. [01:33:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:33:57] Speaker C: TiVo eventually got within a rito Inaritu. [01:34:01] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:34:03] Speaker C: He was the guy that did Coron. He was Coron's guy. [01:34:06] Speaker A: Okay. [01:34:07] Speaker B: Oh, got it. [01:34:08] Speaker A: Okay. [01:34:08] Speaker B: Makes sense. [01:34:09] Speaker C: All of Corona's movies. Another Harry Potter thing is maybe the reason Deathly Hallows looks very washed out like this movie. [01:34:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:19] Speaker C: Probably because that's TiVo as well. [01:34:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:23] Speaker C: During the cinematography. [01:34:25] Speaker A: Well, well, Johnny, we made a nice little. A nice little detour into the Fox and the Hound. So I think it's about time that we rate a puppy. Let's rate this one. Very good. [01:34:39] Speaker B: Good dog. [01:34:40] Speaker A: Good dog. [01:34:41] Speaker C: That's a good dog. [01:34:43] Speaker B: Aw. Well, it's also time to rate this puppy. And by this puppy, I mean Sleepy Hollow. It's time to rate the puppy. All right, so we are not rating two issues of Spawn this week. We are rating a movie. Yes, indeed. And as you know, it's been Tim Burton, Sleepy Hollow. I'll go first. I guess I'm gonna give it. So, you know, we give it out of five and you give it. Instead of stars, you pick something goofy from the thing. So I'm going to give this five Magistrate Phillips heads because I love the heads in this movie. They look so good. [01:35:20] Speaker A: Spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin. [01:35:22] Speaker B: Five out of five spinning heads. I think it's a great movie. It's the atmosphere, the dialogue's fun. Another shout out. Andrew Kevin Walker. This was his follow up to 7. Same screenwriter as 7. So you get that kind of procedural aspect to it. I just think it. The music, the. The set design, the actors, it all comes together to create something that's special. I was obsessed with it as a kid. I really enjoyed it watching it. I watched it by mom. She liked it. Her biggest takeaway was like. I asked her what her biggest takeaway was or. And she was like, he's like the Terminator. She's. That horse is like the Terminator. I'm like, yeah, he pretty much is. But yeah, she enjoyed it too. She had never seen it before, but I was just really into it. And I love it now. I think it's fun. It's perfect for spooky season. [01:36:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:36:15] Speaker B: If you're listening to this on Halloween, when this episode drops tonight, fire up that Paramount plus and watch Sleepy Hollow. [01:36:23] Speaker A: Or the Pluto tv because it's on there. [01:36:25] Speaker B: Or the Steelbook that I have that you can't get anymore because it's sold out. [01:36:30] Speaker A: Go to. Go to Johnny's house. [01:36:32] Speaker B: Steal my Steelbook. [01:36:33] Speaker A: Johnny, you gotta show me the Steelbook. [01:36:36] Speaker B: It's not even at my house. It's in storage. So hot. [01:36:39] Speaker A: Go to Johnny's storage facility. [01:36:41] Speaker C: No, don't. [01:36:43] Speaker A: There's too much Sleepy Hollow steel. [01:36:45] Speaker B: Fucking don't take all the spawn figures. [01:36:50] Speaker A: David. [01:36:50] Speaker B: What are you gonna give this? [01:36:51] Speaker A: What am I gonna give this? Well, Johnny, I'm. I'm gonna like regardless of it's a good movie or not. I don't fucking care if it's a good movie. I love the shit out of it. I love it so much that every time I watch it, I find something else to fuel an argument for it being a bad movie. And I just don't care. I am gonna give it. Oh boy. I'm gonna give it five gunpowders because that horse is a beast. [01:37:17] Speaker B: He got a big old wagon dude. [01:37:19] Speaker A: But oh, man, you got a donkey. He don't he. He's not gonna listen to this little weenie. This little weenie boy. He's like, I'm just gonna go do horse. That reminds me of my sister's horse. My sister's horse was like that. All he wanted to do was go to the barn and eat some food. And if you wanted him to do anything else, he was. He would be like, hey, guess what? We're gonna go to the barn and eat some food. And you're coma with me. [01:37:41] Speaker B: What was your sister's Horse's name? [01:37:43] Speaker A: His name was Jet2Socks. He was a registered barrel racer, and my sister was the only person he ever listened to. Ever. [01:37:53] Speaker B: Oh, it was definitely her horse. [01:37:55] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. The first time they met, he bit her and she punched him in the nose. And then after that, he was just like, okay, lady. Okay, that's funny. [01:38:06] Speaker B: Cool. Eloy, what do you think? What are you gonna give Tim Burton Sleepy Hollow? [01:38:09] Speaker C: Probably give it four Colonial Johnny Rico's. [01:38:14] Speaker B: Yes. We love him. This is also before he was a religious nut, too, because he became a Caster Van Dien became like a religious nut, so. [01:38:22] Speaker C: Oh. [01:38:23] Speaker A: Oh, no. [01:38:24] Speaker B: One more fun person. [01:38:26] Speaker C: Oh, there you go. You're back. [01:38:28] Speaker A: You froze for a second. [01:38:29] Speaker B: Me? [01:38:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:38:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:38:31] Speaker B: Oh, no. [01:38:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:38:32] Speaker B: I'm saying this was before Caster Van Dean was a religious nut. Okay. [01:38:36] Speaker C: Yeah, he's. He was also Prince of Yugoslavia for a while. [01:38:40] Speaker A: Oh, really? [01:38:41] Speaker B: Oh, that's right. [01:38:42] Speaker C: Yeah. He married a Yugoslavian princess. [01:38:44] Speaker B: I forgot. [01:38:45] Speaker A: Wild. Wild. [01:38:47] Speaker B: I remember reading that. [01:38:48] Speaker A: That's right. [01:38:48] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [01:38:49] Speaker C: That's a reality show I'm doing. [01:38:51] Speaker B: Shit. Okay. Yeah, he is. [01:38:54] Speaker C: He tried. He had a fancy gun. Yeah. Had some cool moves. [01:38:59] Speaker B: But he got. He got Darth Mauled by Darth Maul. [01:39:03] Speaker A: Yeah, himself. Yeah. I guess that just means In Sleepy Hollow 2, he's gonna show up with, like, a steampunk spider body. [01:39:11] Speaker B: Hey, we're out. Find out Wednesday. [01:39:15] Speaker C: But. [01:39:15] Speaker A: Yeah, you mean you will have found out on Wednesday. [01:39:18] Speaker B: Yes, I've already found out. I've already read it. [01:39:20] Speaker C: When. When I saw this movie. Movie. Originally, I think I was less tired of the Tim Burton aesthetic. [01:39:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I was. I was. I was asking to have more of it. I was. I was very Kylo Ren. [01:39:34] Speaker C: Yeah. I was like, I get it. It's creepy. And it was also at the time where every single girl had on anything with Nightmare Before Christmas on was just. So I was. I went into Sleepy Hollow, like, and it was enjoyable, but I, like, even this time, I'm just like, okay, I get it. It's Tim Burton. Tim Burtonine all over the place. [01:40:00] Speaker A: Yeah. You gotta like Tim Burton to like it. [01:40:02] Speaker C: And Johnny Depp being like the Johnny Depp from before. Pirates. [01:40:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:08] Speaker C: Right. So it was, you know, it was. [01:40:10] Speaker B: A fun movie, but good, spooky season movie, I'd say. [01:40:13] Speaker A: Good spooky season. [01:40:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:40:16] Speaker A: It's also wonderful for referencing constantly on podcasts about Spawn, which this is ostensibly. [01:40:25] Speaker B: Supposedly, supposedly not today, so. [01:40:28] Speaker A: So normally on this podcast about what is usually Spawn, we like to reach out to the greater Spawn community and boost Individuals in the Spawn Unity. But today, since we are absent Spawn. Eloy, is there anything that you do out in the world that you want people to know about? Is there. Do you want people to follow you on any social medias? Do you want people to. Is there any particular like pastime or skilled thing that you think people should really get into? [01:41:05] Speaker C: Do not. I mean, follow me on social medias if you like seeing pictures of what records I just bought or me hanging out with my girlfriend, because that's about. [01:41:14] Speaker A: That sounds. That sounds awesome. [01:41:16] Speaker B: Sounds great to me. [01:41:17] Speaker C: The only thing I post. But one thing I'll say to people out there, John knows this about me. Go out and dance. Go find a good place to dance. I do country. I do country music, but any type of music, guys. Go out and dance and meet people and say hello. If you go to a two step thing around Chicago, I most likely will be there. [01:41:43] Speaker A: Hell yeah. [01:41:44] Speaker C: So I'm going tomorrow. Nice. [01:41:47] Speaker A: So you know, tomorrow as of this record or tomorrow as of this episode, dropping. [01:41:51] Speaker C: Oh, tomorrow as of this record. So yesterday. But I'll also be out the Friday after this record and the Sunday, so. [01:42:02] Speaker A: Okay. [01:42:03] Speaker B: So don't bother clarifying. It's useless information. [01:42:06] Speaker A: It's close enough. [01:42:07] Speaker C: Yeah, go. [01:42:08] Speaker B: Don't bother clarifying. [01:42:10] Speaker A: Go dance. [01:42:11] Speaker C: Go dance. [01:42:11] Speaker A: And everybody you see when you're dancing be like, are you Eloy Martinez? [01:42:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:16] Speaker A: No. Okay. You Eloy? [01:42:19] Speaker C: Just ask anybody. They'll know who I am. [01:42:21] Speaker A: Hell yeah. [01:42:22] Speaker C: Just walk into the bar, go, who is Eloy Martinez? And they'll all point to me. Sweet. [01:42:28] Speaker A: Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. [01:42:30] Speaker C: Thanks guys for having me on this. [01:42:32] Speaker A: Thank you for being on. [01:42:33] Speaker B: Of course. [01:42:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:34] Speaker B: Anytime we can get a non Spawn episode, we try to get someone fun. [01:42:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:37] Speaker A: Anytime we get to talk to our friend Eli. [01:42:40] Speaker B: Good times. So make sure to come back next week. We will be talking Spawn. We're talking Violator origins number five. [01:42:49] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. [01:42:50] Speaker B: That fun. Kind of based on Cabaret. [01:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Kind of story, kind of retelling of Spawn 8. A little. [01:42:59] Speaker B: A little bit. A little more grounded in John Milton version of Spawn number eight. So we'll be doing that next week. So get you some Violator Origins number five and come on back and we'll talk about it. [01:43:11] Speaker A: Hell yeah. [01:43:11] Speaker B: And make sure to give us a follow on Instagram. We are at regarding Spawn. We are regarding spawn podmail.com. send us an email and your thoughts on Sleepy Hollow if you have any. [01:43:24] Speaker A: More pictures of your Sleepy Hollow action figures. [01:43:27] Speaker B: Yes. Or pictures of your Fox and the Hound lithograph that you get to hang up. [01:43:33] Speaker A: I'm totally gonna have to take a picture of that and post it. I've got it framed in everything for, like, my 14th birthday, I think it was. My sister got it, like, professionally framed for me. [01:43:44] Speaker B: Oh, that's amazing. [01:43:46] Speaker A: Fucking love it. Maybe I was 15 because it was a black frame, so I had to have entered my goth era by then, so probably 15. [01:43:54] Speaker B: Nice. Yeah, that's what we're doing next week. I said, follow us. I said, should we do our shout out? [01:44:01] Speaker A: Lonnie Bones does our music. [01:44:02] Speaker B: Lonnie Bones does our music. Make sure to look at them anywhere. You get music online. [01:44:06] Speaker A: Yes. Yes, you can. You can dance to it a little bit. Some of it. Some of it's not dancing. [01:44:11] Speaker B: Some of it's not danceable. Some of it's danceable. I've danced to our theme song before. [01:44:14] Speaker A: You can. You can dance to most anything you can try. [01:44:17] Speaker B: We just be dancing to our theme song like. [01:44:20] Speaker A: Like the joke in rent. Dancing to the sound of ice tea being stirred. [01:44:25] Speaker B: I like iced tea. [01:44:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I like iced tea, too. [01:44:27] Speaker B: I like the drink and the man. [01:44:29] Speaker C: Never seen rent. [01:44:31] Speaker B: Good. I never paid rent. I wish. I wish I'd never paid rent. [01:44:36] Speaker A: Yeah, but that just means you don't know how many minutes are in a year right off the top of the dome, do you? [01:44:42] Speaker C: 800? [01:44:44] Speaker A: Nope. Nope. [01:44:45] Speaker C: 20? [01:44:46] Speaker A: No, no, it's 525,600. [01:44:48] Speaker C: Okay, there we go. [01:44:51] Speaker B: 525,000. [01:44:54] Speaker C: Wow. [01:44:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a lot of minutes. [01:44:56] Speaker A: I've actually had to use that professionally before. I have had to subdivide minutes in a year and been like, holy. I know this. [01:45:03] Speaker B: Without doing the math, we've almost gone 120 minutes, so it might be time for you to sing us out, David, with that sweet tune you sing, I. [01:45:16] Speaker A: Think that means that I need to have nothing more to say. But, Johnny Eloy, may the Scorched be with you. [01:45:24] Speaker B: And also with you. [01:45:25] Speaker A: Hell, yeah. [01:45:26] Speaker B: The Scorched is the Spawn team. Just in case you didn't know. That's why we say that. [01:45:32] Speaker C: I know that. I think I actually have a Scorch number one. [01:45:35] Speaker B: Hell, yeah, you do. [01:45:37] Speaker C: Never read. [01:45:40] Speaker B: It's a good comic. [01:45:41] Speaker C: Free Con book. [01:45:43] Speaker A: Nice. [01:45:43] Speaker B: Oh, nice. Well, it's fun. We did an episode on it, like, three years ago. [01:45:49] Speaker A: Yeah, a very long time ago. [01:45:51] Speaker B: Cool. Well, just watch out for any Hessians out there and make sure to always. [01:45:58] Speaker A: Not lose your head. [01:46:02] Speaker B: Don't lose your head, baby.